Fish Are Flicking

[nigsy]

Have a look at this:

Velvet

Maybe of help.

 

[mark4785]

Have a look at this:

Velvet

Maybe of help.

Thank you for the link. I've switched to treating for Velvet after several large water changes. Ever since switching treatments the fish isn't rubbing on objects as much so hopefully the treatment is working.

 

[mark4785]

i was just reading your original post - even though you have removed a possible 'bad plant' is there any possibility it could have left residue in the substrate?
have you done an oxygen test?
have you finished the medication yet?
have you changed your substrate recently?

There is no residue because the plant is fine. It only looks ill due to algae hair growth on the leaves. I've trimmed it down so there isn't as much algae hair on it now. I checked the underside of the leaves which don't get any light and there was no algae growth and the plant was lush and green.

How do I do an oxygen test?

I've finished a full course of Sterazin treatment. It didn't stop the flicking/rubbing at all. I've switched to using Protozin which treats Velvet disease, Ich after completely removing the previous treatment.

The substrate has always been in there; its called Torpedo Beach Instant Aquarium Sand by Caribsea.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

Did you re-introduce a carbon sponge to any filters and then give it 48 hours to remove any traces of Sterazin, before starting a course of Protozin?

 

[mark4785]

Did you re-introduce a carbon sponge to any filters and then give it 48 hours to remove any traces of Sterazin, before starting a course of Protozin?

No as this isn't required as per the application instructions. To be honest Goat I don't really want to take any of your advice since I've never understood why you need to be sarcy with me and other people who are looking for help and advice. So I kindly request you stay out of my threads and I'll do the same towards yours, thanks.

 

[mark4785]

i was just reading your original post - even though you have removed a possible 'bad plant' is there any possibility it could have left residue in the substrate?
have you done an oxygen test?
have you finished the medication yet?
have you changed your substrate recently?

I've completed an oxygen test and the results show that the water carries around 6 mg per litre. The water is 28 degrees C. The 100% saturation 02 concentration expected of water at this temperature is apparently 7.8 mg per litre and it advices that if the 02 level drops below 75% of 7.8mg per litre (which when calculated is: 5.9 mg per litre) the oxygen level should be boosted.

Based on the results I wouldn't say there is an oxygen issue but I have turned the airstone up anyway and I've lowered the water level so that the pump outlet pipe is more close to the surface and therefore creates a more prominent ripple effect. I'm going to do more frequent filter sponge cleaning as the less detritus clogged up in them, the stronger the ripple effect.

With regards to the male Ram, he is still rubbing on objects quite often, although several days ago, when I began the protozin treatment, the frequency of the rubbing went down. Recently the rubbing became more frequent again so I contacted Waterlife (they manufacturer Protozin) to ask them if their products can impact on the health of fish. I asked this as a few posters above seemed concerned that I wasn't removing the treatment by doing water changes in the middle of completing the Protozin treatment course. Waterlife replied saying the treatment should never be removed as it is completely safe and if any fish begin to rub more when anti-parasite treatments are introduced it is because the parasite is moving more in response to the treatment which causes the fish to rub more!

I'm going to continue treating the tank with Protozin because I've noticed that another poster above stated they keep Rams in hard water (just like I do) and they've never witnessed them rub on objects (implying hard water doesn't cause skin irritation; only parasites) and so the likelihood of a general hardness level of 8-9 dH is unlikely to cause skin irritation on a fish that is used to a general hardness level of 3-4 dH. Conversely, my LFS thought my hardness level was too high for my GBR! To sort all of these conflicting opinions out I'm going to take the GBR for a scrape to identify exactly what (if any) parasite is on it's skin. If there is just one parasite or none I'll purchase an RO system and start to slowly change the KH and GH parameters of my water with the aim of emulating the GBR's natural environment. Why? Because I have a fully cycled healthy aquarium, I provide a healthy varied diet for the fish, I spend hours taking care of them each day, so the only possible potential killer in the tank is an out of balance KH and GH.

Mark.

 

[hamfist]

Just read your thread, and you seem to be absolutely determined to sort this out .. good on you !

Just before you go out and get an RO system, I would just recommend you trying flubendazole treatment. It is by far the best anti-parasitic treatment that I have used and , if you stick to the recommended dosages, I have not seen any toxicity to any fish from it. In my experience, it is so much more effective than the protozin/sterazin/parazin type meds
I bought it as NT labs "Flukasol" in my LFS. You can also get it easily online as "Wormer plus".
As a word of warning - if you do use it, do NOT overdose. I did this once, and the fish did not like it at all. Also, bear in mind that it is active in the water for a long time (certainly many days), therefore do not redose a couple of days later thinking that what you originally put in is no longer active.

Whether you choose to try the flubendazole or not, I hope you can get to the bottom of this.

 

[mark4785]

Just read your thread, and you seem to be absolutely determined to sort this out .. good on you !

Just before you go out and get an RO system, I would just recommend you trying flubendazole treatment. It is by far the best anti-parasitic treatment that I have used and , if you stick to the recommended dosages, I have not seen any toxicity to any fish from it. In my experience, it is so much more effective than the protozin/sterazin/parazin type meds
I bought it as NT labs "Flukasol" in my LFS. You can also get it easily online as "Wormer plus".
As a word of warning - if you do use it, do NOT overdose. I did this once, and the fish did not like it at all. Also, bear in mind that it is active in the water for a long time (certainly many days), therefore do not redose a couple of days later thinking that what you originally put in is no longer active.

Whether you choose to try the flubendazole or not, I hope you can get to the bottom of this.

Hi, thanks for the recommendation.

Over the last 2 days the Ram has barely rubbed itself on any objects; when it has done, it will be a brief rub rather than several crazy looking rubs in quick succession! So it would appear the Protozin has killed the parasites and the diet I give them (Ocean Nutrition flakes everyday and Bloodworms soaked in vitamins every 4-7 days) is helping to boost their immune system so that another parasite infestation doesn't occur.

If they continue to improve in response to the use of anti-parasite treatment, this hopefully implies that the water itself is no issue to the fish and it was purely a parasite issue causing the skin irritation.

The only odd symptom that remains which the Ram demonstrates is the occassional yawning motion done with it's mouth. I know this can be a symptom of gill flukes, and indeed he does try to rub the gill area, but can anything else cause yawning a part from parasites?

Mark.

 

[mark4785]

Well the German Blue Ram (GBR) is now rubbing itself on objects again. So much so that is now has a red sore on it's body below the dorsal thin. Also noticed that he's gone off his food within last few hours.

This is what I've treated the tank with over the course of about 2 months, presuming there is some sort of parasite on the skin of the fish:

1. Anti-slime and Velvet by Interpet.
2. Sterazin treatment by Waterlife.
3. Protozin treatment by Waterlife x 2.

They've had no effect against whatever is bugging the GBR.

Obvious question is what to do next?? Can I try salt treatment with a GBR?

 

[mark4785]

Here is some footage of what the GBR does virtually all the time until I open the lid to offer food video URL: http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEJMX4ElvuY

It looks like normal behaviour but in actual fact I think it's rubbing it's body on the glass to relieve irritation. When it comes over to the front of the tank to eat it may jerk, make very strange yawning motions with it's mouth (several times) or rub itself on several objects in very quick succesion.

Any ideas on what may be wrong with him?