Final Fish List

[Rubyuk]

Hi all

As the title suggests this is my final fish list..............probably

As regular readers of my cycling thread will know,I'm now pretty much getting to my Qualifying week after 48 days of fishless cycling.

Seeing i'm potentially so close to the end I've been taking time to revisit my stocking plans

I've done loads of research since October last year and my stocking list has changed as i've read that certain fish I liked the look of were unsuitable either due to size or agression etc.

As a newbie there does seem to be so much conflicting advice depending on what books/internet sites you read etc as to what may not get on with what etc,so much so that it can be confusing so I thought I'd run things by the helpful people here (thats you )

I get the impression that sometimes because of the conflicting opinions its a case of 'try it and see' as fish like us humans can have different temperments within each species so you could always get a rogue fish even in something supposed to be peaceful and social?

I know that some/many of my choices will not float everyones boat but so long as there are no glaringly obvious mistakes,I'm prepared to try things out.

Of course if members have alternatives that I can then look up then great!

Final thoughts are:

1 pair Pearl Gourami
Rosy Tetras
Dwarf Neon Rainbowfish (praecox)
Possibly some Emperor Tetras
1 pair rams
some corys
Amano shrimps (too large to get eaten I believe)
Some Nerite Snails
Possibly a couple of male platys

on the reserve list are:

Gold Barbs (barbus sachsi (SP))
Apistogramma Agazzi (SP)
Zebra Loaches
Otos

I've brought up the question of dwarf cichlids on another posters thread so apologies if that poster reads the duplicate here,but I wanted to start a full fish choice list in the Newbie section.

I'm loving the rams and I've had my eyes on some beautiful locally bred ones for months but have now also seen the Agazzi's (SP)

But I dont know if you can mix dwarf cichlids together ie a pair of rams and a pair of Agazzi's or even if you are limited to just keeping in pairs as one site says you need to keep 2f to every M agazzi?

Could I have both (eventually,as I know they need a few months mature tank as do ottos,loaches and shrimps off my list) or would it be best to settle on just one pair of one variety? I'd love to have more than 2 rams but understand its the done thing to just have 1 pair in a tank of my size as otherwise rival males squabble? Dont know if that means you could go for 1 male and say 2/3 females?

Another possible stumbling block to either is that I'm told that no dwarf cichlid,even these two relative peaceful varietys (apart from when spawning possibly) is a good choice for corrys as they get hassled by the cichlids. (dont know if thats just playful or potential damage/stress situation)

That would bring my Zebra Loaches in off the bench but they'd surely eat my nerite snails as well and not just the pest snails? and in any event I'm told that loaches are too frantic to be homed with the slow pace/take it easy lifestyle of the rams?

That brings me to a question about the Dwarf Neon Rainbows as although I read they are hardy and an excellent starter fish and are peaceful and social with all other fish I understand they are quite fast movers? Now is that also going to be bad for my other choices and in particular any cichlid or because they are relatively small and peaceful would the rest put up with them as I know that the Pearl Gourami are also a quiet social fish as i'm led to believe are the Rosy and Emperor Tetras?

Its so hard trying to work out what might go with what and what might not settle or upset the balance of the rest of the tank,so its over to you guys.


Help

p.s

Just in case you've forgotton...my tank is a Juwel 180 Vision,Juwel Internal filter, 2 extra sources of aeriation run from an air pump (not run 24/7,but can be if desired,but I read its not adviseable?),quite heavily planted,certainly lots of broken sight lines and hideing places in cave,hollow tree stump fake decs etc._

 

[waterdrop]

Well Ruby, even though I've had various different species of cichlids in past years, I'm no good at any knowledge to pass on about them and so will hope you get advice from the many cichlid experts here. Probably I'd learn some good stuff too from that.

To me the direction of your stocking plans looks quite good. Nothing really bad jumps out at me but it still could from others.

In the past I -have- had Pearls that became pretty aggressive as they got bigger, but gouramis, like cichlids, are so very unpredictable in that they can have individual personalities, so you can't generalize about the individual fish another person might get! In your large tank with good planting and other larger fish like the cichlids and things, I imagine the Pearls would probably be fine.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Rubyuk]

Well Ruby, even though I've had various different species of cichlids in past years, I'm no good at any knowledge to pass on about them and so will hope you get advice from the many cichlid experts here. Probably I'd learn some good stuff too from that.

To me the direction of your stocking plans looks quite good. Nothing really bad jumps out at me but it still could from others.

In the past I -have- had Pearls that became pretty aggressive as they got bigger, but gouramis, like cichlids, are so very unpredictable in that they can have individual personalities, so you can't generalize about the individual fish another person might get! In your large tank with good planting and other larger fish like the cichlids and things, I imagine the Pearls would probably be fine.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks Waterdrop

 

[minxfishy]

I see no obvious issues with that stocking plan, you may get away with a pair of rams (blue, bolivian, gold) and a pair/trio of apistos, providing you have enough caves, rocks, plants etc (which you say you have) it will be case of introducing them at the same time, to allow them to establish territories together, meaning if you add the rams 1st, then a few weeks later the apistos, you could have a problem of the rams already having found their spot but the apistos wanting it too, which will lead to chasing, if you add them together they usually find a peaceful compromise.

Ive had corys with rams and other cichlids (although not apistos) and never found them to be bullied, heck even my 3 severum leave them alone as they dont bother them or invade on their areas, they just go about their business, so I dont see an issue if you want some.

Really your best of with 1m/1f ram, however that doesnt guarantee an actual 'pair' they can be picky about their partners, if you end up with a pair from buying 3, the one left out would be bullied, especially during spawning, so I would stick with m/f. Apistos, its generally a hareem breeder (again never kept them though) so 1m/2f.

Praecox are the most peaceful things around, not particularly fast swimming and wont bother or be bothered by any of the fish you have chosen, keep them in a minimum of 6 and they will be perfectly happy.

I would stick with one set of the tetras, just because a larger shoal looks better and they are then less prone to nip other fish, not that those are particularly nippy species of tetras to my knowledge.

Hope some of that helps.

Edit to add: I would advise you add the rams/apistos last, not because I hold with the must be at least 6 months mature, but just because it will allow the tank to settle and ensure no problems with ammonia/nitrite etc even though its been fishlessly cycled, they would be the least forgiving of the species you would like, so its always best to take no chances

 

[rabbut]

I've not spotted any issues there

I've actually found Pearl Gourami very prone to being bullied, rather than bullying As WD say's though, fish are living animals and hence not always predictable. They can't read, so they don't know how they are supposed to behave

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Rubyuk]

I see no obvious issues with that stocking plan, you may get away with a pair of rams (blue, bolivian, gold) and a pair/trio of apistos, providing you have enough caves, rocks, plants etc (which you say you have) it will be case of introducing them at the same time, to allow them to establish territories together, meaning if you add the rams 1st, then a few weeks later the apistos, you could have a problem of the rams already having found their spot but the apistos wanting it too, which will lead to chasing, if you add them together they usually find a peaceful compromise.

Ive had corys with rams and other cichlids (although not apistos) and never found them to be bullied, heck even my 3 severum leave them alone as they dont bother them or invade on their areas, they just go about their business, so I dont see an issue if you want some.

Really your best of with 1m/1f ram, however that doesnt guarantee an actual 'pair' they can be picky about their partners, if you end up with a pair from buying 3, the one left out would be bullied, especially during spawning, so I would stick with m/f. Apistos, its generally a hareem breeder (again never kept them though) so 1m/2f.

Praecox are the most peaceful things around, not particularly fast swimming and wont bother or be bothered by any of the fish you have chosen, keep them in a minimum of 6 and they will be perfectly happy.

I would stick with one set of the tetras, just because a larger shoal looks better and they are then less prone to nip other fish, not that those are particularly nippy species of tetras to my knowledge.

Hope some of that helps.

Edit to add: I would advise you add the rams/apistos last, not because I hold with the must be at least 6 months mature, but just because it will allow the tank to settle and ensure no problems with ammonia/nitrite etc even though its been fishlessly cycled, they would be the least forgiving of the species you would like, so its always best to take no chances

Great stuff Minxfishy.

Thank you

I was kind of thinking of losing one of the tetras as I know (despite it being a newbie mistake) people with more experience say its better to go with one larger group of something as opposed to two smaller groups but its a hard habit to get myself out of.

I know I wanted the Emperors before I set eyes on the Rosy and now I want or at least would like them both

If someone held a gun to my head and said I HAD TO chose one or the other,I'd probably go with the Rosy Tetras

 

[Rubyuk]

I've not spotted any issues there

I've actually found Pearl Gourami very prone to being bullied, rather than bullying As WD say's though, fish are living animals and hence not always predictable. They can't read, so they don't know how they are supposed to behave

All the best
Rabbut

Hmm thats food for thought as I was planning on having a pair of pearls as a kind of graceful feature fish for the upper levels of the tank

I know i've read that the Pearls can sulk and fade (colourwise) away if they are hassled by boisterous fish.

Do you think any of my choices would definately bully them as I dont want to make their lives a misery (Pearls) if I give them unsuitable tankmates.

If you think the Pearls might be a bad choice with my other choices,would you have an alternative striking feature fish/pair that would/could take their place?

I know my partner wants a male siamese fighter but I've read sites including Beta specific sites that suggest they should be a species only tank and not best suited to a community set up despite a lot of people saying you can keep 1 male betta in a community set up with suitable tankmates that are not going to rip its fins to bit.

Also I'm not sure if my tankmates would be suitable with a male betta ie the Rams are the ones that spring to mind?

 

[waterdrop]

Wow, with the Pearl, you're really getting down into the area where personally I'd just have to try it and learn, but maybe rabbut, davo or stang1 or some of the others would have some Pearl/cichlid interaction experiences. I'd still be inclined to think the Pearls would hold there own in there.

I've seen some very widely different advice about keeping a betta in community... I think OM47 perhaps once mentioned having it go ok. I've only ever kept them as species-specific myself.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Rubyuk]

Wow, with the Pearl, you're really getting down into the area where personally I'd just have to try it and learn, but maybe rabbut, davo or stang1 or some of the others would have some Pearl/cichlid interaction experiences. I'd still be inclined to think the Pearls would hold there own in there.

I've seen some very widely different advice about keeping a betta in community... I think OM47 perhaps once mentioned having it go ok. I've only ever kept them as species-specific myself.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks Waterdrop

Unless Rabbut or the other guys comeback with any more thoughts on the Pearl Gourami issue I think I will try them and monitor

 

[lil-x-me...x]

i am in a rush, so havent read the hole thread thurally, but incase nobody has mensioned...gouramis are usually one male to 2 females. so if you have room id get 3 gouramis one male, 2 females.

the difference is that males tend to be much brighter in breeding season, and have a more pointy dorsal fin (i think thats right.) and the females have a brown fade line across there bodies and they have a more round dorsal fin...iv got to try and get 1 male and 2 female honey gouramis soon, and i hope i can tell the difference!?

hope this little piece of info helped and good luck, let us now how you get on and send us some pics if you can!

 

[stang1]

Pearl Gouramies on the whole are fairly peaceful, although you will always get an exception to the rule!
I've never kept Dwarf Cichlids with Gouramies, only with smaller community fish such as Tetras and Rasboras etc. I never had any problems keeping these together as the tank was quite heavily planted and there were plenty of caves.
I think the Cichlid/Pearl combination could work but as with anything, it's all trial and error.
As for a male Betta, you could end up restricting yourself to other stocking as they can be aggressive and are prone to being nipped. People have had success keeping them in a community tank but I found mine were content enough having a tank to themselves. They also prefer little or no flow in the water, whereas many fish prefer a good flow. This makes finding a happy medium difficult. I've had many customers moan that their Betta sits behind the filter all the time when kept in a community tank. This is usually to avoid getting caught in the flow. Spoil your fella and get him a nice 5G+ tank to keep a Betta in!

 

[rabbut]

I know i've read that the Pearls can sulk and fade (colourwise) away if they are hassled by boisterous fish.

Do you think any of my choices would definately bully them as I dont want to make their lives a misery (Pearls) if I give them unsuitable tankmates.

If you think the Pearls might be a bad choice with my other choices,would you have an alternative striking feature fish/pair that would/could take their place?

TBH, I think it unlikely that any of your planned stocking will bother them, but it is something to watch for

I know my partner wants a male siamese fighter but I've read sites including Beta specific sites that suggest they should be a species only tank and not best suited to a community set up despite a lot of people saying you can keep 1 male betta in a community set up with suitable tankmates that are not going to rip its fins to bit.

Also I'm not sure if my tankmates would be suitable with a male betta ie the Rams are the ones that spring to mind?

Wow, with the Pearl, you're really getting down into the area where personally I'd just have to try it and learn, but maybe rabbut, davo or stang1 or some of the others would have some Pearl/cichlid interaction experiences. I'd still be inclined to think the Pearls would hold there own in there.

I've seen some very widely different advice about keeping a betta in community... I think OM47 perhaps once mentioned having it go ok. I've only ever kept them as species-specific myself.

~~waterdrop~~

The Pearls stay mainly in the mid to upper section. The Dwarf Cichlids are mainly mid to lower levels. While the Rams are teritorial about caves and spawnig sites while breeding, they will be away from the Gouramis and unlikely to be an issue I've had Bettas in a community set-up many a time and it's usualy gone well. The trick I find is to avoid mixing them with other fish from that genus (Other types of Betta and Gourami's), anything nippy and anything with realy bright colours or with long finnage

i am in a rush, so havent read the hole thread thurally, but incase nobody has mensioned...gouramis are usually one male to 2 females. so if you have room id get 3 gouramis one male, 2 females.

the difference is that males tend to be much brighter in breeding season, and have a more pointy dorsal fin (i think thats right.) and the females have a brown fade line across there bodies and they have a more round dorsal fin...iv got to try and get 1 male and 2 female honey gouramis soon, and i hope i can tell the difference!?

hope this little piece of info helped and good luck, let us now how you get on and send us some pics if you can!

^^ Agree with the above for sexing. I haven't know male Pearls to horrase females like any other Gourami though... The colouration difference between Male and Female Pearls in good condition will be minimal, but the dorsal fin difference is realy obvious

All the best
rabbut

 

[Rubyuk]

I know i've read that the Pearls can sulk and fade (colourwise) away if they are hassled by boisterous fish.

Do you think any of my choices would definately bully them as I dont want to make their lives a misery (Pearls) if I give them unsuitable tankmates.

If you think the Pearls might be a bad choice with my other choices,would you have an alternative striking feature fish/pair that would/could take their place?

TBH, I think it unlikely that any of your planned stocking will bother them, but it is something to watch for

I know my partner wants a male siamese fighter but I've read sites including Beta specific sites that suggest they should be a species only tank and not best suited to a community set up despite a lot of people saying you can keep 1 male betta in a community set up with suitable tankmates that are not going to rip its fins to bit.

Also I'm not sure if my tankmates would be suitable with a male betta ie the Rams are the ones that spring to mind?

Wow, with the Pearl, you're really getting down into the area where personally I'd just have to try it and learn, but maybe rabbut, davo or stang1 or some of the others would have some Pearl/cichlid interaction experiences. I'd still be inclined to think the Pearls would hold there own in there.

I've seen some very widely different advice about keeping a betta in community... I think OM47 perhaps once mentioned having it go ok. I've only ever kept them as species-specific myself.

~~waterdrop~~

The Pearls stay mainly in the mid to upper section. The Dwarf Cichlids are mainly mid to lower levels. While the Rams are teritorial about caves and spawnig sites while breeding, they will be away from the Gouramis and unlikely to be an issue I've had Bettas in a community set-up many a time and it's usualy gone well. The trick I find is to avoid mixing them with other fish from that genus (Other types of Betta and Gourami's), anything nippy and anything with realy bright colours or with long finnage

i am in a rush, so havent read the hole thread thurally, but incase nobody has mensioned...gouramis are usually one male to 2 females. so if you have room id get 3 gouramis one male, 2 females.

the difference is that males tend to be much brighter in breeding season, and have a more pointy dorsal fin (i think thats right.) and the females have a brown fade line across there bodies and they have a more round dorsal fin...iv got to try and get 1 male and 2 female honey gouramis soon, and i hope i can tell the difference!?

hope this little piece of info helped and good luck, let us now how you get on and send us some pics if you can!

^^ Agree with the above for sexing. I haven't know male Pearls to horrase females like any other Gourami though... The colouration difference between Male and Female Pearls in good condition will be minimal, but the dorsal fin difference is realy obvious

All the best
rabbut

Thanks for the advice Rabbut.

Pearl Gouramies on the whole are fairly peaceful, although you will always get an exception to the rule!
I've never kept Dwarf Cichlids with Gouramies, only with smaller community fish such as Tetras and Rasboras etc. I never had any problems keeping these together as the tank was quite heavily planted and there were plenty of caves.
I think the Cichlid/Pearl combination could work but as with anything, it's all trial and error.
As for a male Betta, you could end up restricting yourself to other stocking as they can be aggressive and are prone to being nipped. People have had success keeping them in a community tank but I found mine were content enough having a tank to themselves. They also prefer little or no flow in the water, whereas many fish prefer a good flow. This makes finding a happy medium difficult. I've had many customers moan that their Betta sits behind the filter all the time when kept in a community tank. This is usually to avoid getting caught in the flow. Spoil your fella and get him a nice 5G+ tank to keep a Betta in!

Thanks Stang

With what you say and backed up by Rabbut and any others I've missed I'm going to stay with the Pearl Gouramis and a pair of rams.

Anyone any experience of the Emperor Tetras and any known fin nipping issues?

 

[stang1]

Sounds good Ruby.
Not kept Emperor Tetras before although I've heard many people say how peaceful they are. In a big enough group, they are more than likely to behave themselves.
Hopefully, someone will be able to give you a more definitive answer.
Good luck with your new stocking.

 

[matchstickman47]

on the reserve list are:

Gold Barbs (barbus sachsi (SP))
Apistogramma Agazzi (SP)
Zebra Loaches
Otos


._

who is in goal? lol