Fin Rot -> About Treatment

[KevJ87]

Hello guys, I have some guppies that are looking like that might have early stages of fin rot, it might not even be true but I going to be proactive with the situation.
 
I have been doing regular water changes, added a little bit of salt to the water and such.
 
I am going to buy the fin rot medicine right now I am going to look for the best one, but my questions / concerns are this.
 
(( I do not have a hospitial tank available at the moment. but the good thing is it looks like ALL fish in this small 10 gallon have the symptoms so all need to be treated ))
 
My issue is that I am worried about harming the good bacteria in the tank by adding the fin rot mediciation I have read mixed reviews saying it won't or will harm the good bacteria.
 
I know I have to remove the carbon from the tank and than treat the water but is this going to hurt my good bacteria at all? 

 

[KevJ87]

Any information on this guy could really do with a little help please.

 

[attibones]

The best treatment for fin rot is really clean and warm water. Fin for usually occurs with poor water quality. What are your stats like (ammonia and nitrite would be most helpful, but pH and nitrate are useful too).

Could you post a picture so we can be sure it is finrot? It isn't a good idea to medicate unless your fish absolutely need the medicine.

How long have you had carbon in the filter? If longer than two weeks then you don't need to remove the cartridge or bag it comes in. The carbon will no longer be active.

Start doing water changes at least every other day (daily would be better) and see if that helps. Just 25% if all your stats are in order.

 

[KevJ87]

Hi there thanks for helping, the tank is only 7 weeks old and I am not sure if it is fin rot but I will get a pic asap. If it is fin rot it is very subtle and I just bought Melafix. I know people have mixed feelings on it but that was the only thing the fish store had, the fish seem ok with me adding it its been in for a couple of hours now.
 
The ammonia is a bit high since my tank was having a hard time cycling but it is finally working.
 
Ammona -> 1.0 ppm
Nitrite -> 0.0 ppm
Nitrate -> 1 ppm
 
Using High Range Ph it came out to about a 7.6 to a 7.7 But I read that guppies enjoy a ph that is a bit high ?
 
I dont have a KH test but I have never had calicum issues so I doubt its very hard.
I added a little kosher salt to the tank as well.

 

[attibones]

Do a 75% water change now. Like right now. Your tank is still not cycled obviously so you'll want to have a look at the fish-in cycling guides if you haven't already. Do a water change tonight and then test again in the morning. If your ammonia is above .25 ppm, then you'll need to do another water change. Test about six hours after that and water change as necessary. Stop with the meds and the salt. Just water changes right now should clear up any problems in your tank. Your fish will be experiencing low immunity right now so you will want to run to the store and pick up some antibacterial medication such as tetracycline just in case.

 

[KevJ87]

I can't find any pet store that carries anti-biotics around here.. Petco and Petsmart around here are all about " herbal remedies" hence the melafix purchase.
I will continue to water change but I thought it was bad to do large water changes like that because its removing what little bacteria I do have in there? or is that false?
 
 
P.S -> on a side note do you know of any  cheap aquarium sand I can get my hands on? I need 40 lbs of it and I Don't want to pay like 75 dollars for it to be all speical?

 

[DoubleDutch]

Ammonia and nitrite-burns will show the same "damage" as the early stage of finrot. I think you don't have to battle the bacterial finrot, but get your fish through the cycle (I always do fishless cycles) and keep the water pristine afterwards.

 

[Mamashack]

The bacteria do not live in the water as such - they live in biofilm, in the filter, on substrate, plants  and decor so it's not a good idea to disturb those at present. However your water is carrying toxic amounts of ammonia. Forget the sand for now - your priority should be making your fish safe.
No amount of chemical treatment is going to help until you remove the source of the problem and that is ammonia. The only way to do that is by doing the water changes that atti advised. The simplest solutions are sometimes the best.
Sadly this is not a separate situation to your other thread - it is one of the consequences of doing a fish-in cycle

 

[KevJ87]

Here are some pictures of the tank / fish, I can't tell if its fin rot or whether its just the way the fins are.
 
Btw, The sand question was not in concern to this tank I have multiple tanks.. So any suggestions regarding the previous question on sand would be appreciated everyone.
 

 
 

 

 

 
 
 
 
 

 

[Mamashack]

Have never experienced fin-rot in my tanks, but from what I've read it starts as a white line around the edge of the fins and if allowed to progress starts to eat away the fins. 
Your pictures are a bit blurred but I can't see any white edges or particularly misshaped fins so I think atti's & DD's assessments are probably correct. If you haven't already you should read the fish-in cycle on here that tells you how to continue if that's what you decide to do, tho I think you'll find that most people would advise against it and perhaps you could rehome your fish in one of your other tanks until this one is cycled properly without fish - that's assuming that your other tanks are well-established and not also doing fish-in cycles. It would be kinder and safer of you did that.
Can't think of a single reasonable excuse for doing fish-in cycle when you have alternative accommodation for your fish.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I do not agree with most of the advice above. A lot of fin rot is bacterial in its cause. Don't take my word for it, Go to Google Scholar and enter "fin rot in ornamental tropical fish" and read for yourselves- http/www.google.com/schhp?hl=en
 
I also do not agree with medicating here for two reasons. First I see nothing in the pictures to indicate fin rot is present, i am not even sure there is even fin erosion (which also can be caused by bacteria). Second, in an established tank with bacteria well ensconced in their bio-film, they will have some resistance to antibiotics. But in a tank still cycling this will not be the case and the bacteria will be more vulnerable.
 
Next, I do not agree with doing a 75% water change. At 1 ppm of total ammonia in a pH 7.7 tank at 78F, the amount of NH3 is .0294. This is nowhere near the really dangerous level onset at .05 ppm. Plus the addition of the salt mitigates the ammonia some. As long as ammonia levels do not rise and do not persists for more than a few days before dropping, I would try to sit tight. This advice is subject to the fish not showing signs of ammonia poisoning.
 

 
SIGNS OF AMMONIA POISONING     
Fish will not behave as they normally do. Signs of ammonia poisoning can include sluggish behavior, panting, and gill discoloration (gill burn). Fish may hang just below the water surface or they may hide or stop eating. When you know you have ammonia in the tank during cycling and you notice such behavioral changes, the best course of action, regardless of test results, it to do an immediate water change of 50% or more.

 
The best courses of action for dealing with this situation are those suggested here  either to remove the fish or to add bacteria http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/433769-rescuing-a-fish-in-cycle-gone-wild-part-i/
 
The above are just this person's opinion of course.

 

[KevJ87]

The reason why my fiancee thought it might be finrot is because the orange and blue guppy that is in the picture above, he had a bright orange top fin. A week ago, she started noticing the tip of the fin turning white-ish. With the yellow guppy, the tail is starting to look a little frayed or 'nipped' but we just have guppies so we have no nippers. I could only get pictures that were blurry and you can not really tell the white-ish top fin or the frayed tail in the picture. I did a water change late last night so I am going to test it again right now. I will post the test results.

 

[KevJ87]

The ammonia levels are coming down a tad bit but even after water changes the ammonia likes to stay between 1.0 ppm -> 2.0 ppm , what could this be caused from? My fiance was over feeding in the start, until I caught her doing it. Do you think a ton of the food is still stuck in the gravel ( even after 10-15 gravel vac sessions ) and it is the culprit for the ever high ammonia? I have been doing daily water changes only missing a few days, along with serious gravel vac sessions.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

My assumption here is your tank isn't cycled. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[KevJ87]

it has been up for a month and a half so i thought it was completely cycled but i've realized it is not completely cycled. I have been doing water changes daily and testing it daily. But on some of the guppies top fins, my fiancee noticed it turning a little white-ish on the edges and on some of them their tail is a little frayed. Could the white edges on their fins and frayed tails be from high ammonia? Correct me if I am wrong, from what I have read about fin rot, the beginning stages are white on the edges of their fins and frayed tails? So I really think it could be fin rot. The melafix is seeming to work a little bit though(I think.)