Fin And Rock Trouble

[ncjharris]

My initial thoughts would be fin rot, brought on as a secondary infection due to something else.
This something could be anything, but the rock is guilty until provent innocent in my mind! I don't think the danios could do that much damage in this short a time,

You didn't like Tokis' suggestions, so I'll try and be a little more diplomatic.

Was the rock soaked or washed before going into the tank?
One way to test if its ok - pull it from the tank, dry it and put a little vinegar on it. If it fizzes its bad.

Keep a close eye on your stats. If the tank wasn't cycled enough then you'll see a spike soon and will need to undertake some drastic action.

I too would add to the comments re: PhDown. Buffering is the beginning of the end in my mind. Once you start it, you need to keep an eye on all your stats (daily) and be confident you know how to return things if it goes wrong. There are so many complex relationships within water chemistry, that changing one will have drastic effects on the other.

And finally; Tokis, those who have posted and everyone else on the board only post out of well being for the fish. There was some good information given there, but bear in mind we are using a forum; its hard to convey emotions in a little bit of text. I am sure she didn't mean to come across rude.

 

[Yarra]

My initial thoughts would be fin rot, brought on as a secondary infection due to something else.
This something could be anything, but the rock is guilty until provent innocent in my mind! I don't think the danios could do that much damage in this short a time,

You didn't like Tokis' suggestions, so I'll try and be a little more diplomatic.

Was the rock soaked or washed before going into the tank?
One way to test if its ok - pull it from the tank, dry it and put a little vinegar on it. If it fizzes its bad.

Keep a close eye on your stats. If the tank wasn't cycled enough then you'll see a spike soon and will need to undertake some drastic action.

I too would add to the comments re: PhDown. Buffering is the beginning of the end in my mind. Once you start it, you need to keep an eye on all your stats (daily) and be confident you know how to return things if it goes wrong. There are so many complex relationships within water chemistry, that changing one will have drastic effects on the other.

And finally; Tokis, those who have posted and everyone else on the board only post out of well being for the fish. There was some good information given there, but bear in mind we are using a forum; its hard to convey emotions in a little bit of text. I am sure she didn't mean to come across rude.

Much thanks!

I know it is hard to convey emotion in a forum. I ran one with over 4,000 members. That is why, i feel, that it is very important to express with text, exactly where you are coming from. That is my opinion though, and I realize there are many that don't share the same.

I am sure that the way I read it had a little to do with how it was written, and a little to do with how I read it.

ANYWAY, I appreciate the help, from everyone, even Tokis, there was info there, that I am sure people reading over this thread might not know themselves. Help is help right?

I just checked stats again. PH is steady at 6.8 everything else is right on as well. I would prefer softer water, but it's tap water, next water change I will get RO. That will help.

I will continue to monitor stats, and not add PHdown (i haven't for almost 24 hours now) If the PH starts to rise again, I will remove the rocks and see what that does. HOPEFULLY though, I am good to go. The rocks look really nice, and they were free! I would hate to have to get rid of them and then spend 35 bucks on the bog wood I want at the LFS. (it's so pretty, but SO $$) Plus, my bf really likes the rocks, he was VERY against the tank in the first place, but since he took part in the getting of the eel and gathering of rocks, he has become an avid learner. I would like to keep them for him. BUT we will see.

Like I said. The PH starts to go up again, the rocks are coming out. and yes they were cleaned and soaked.

Time to go plant some more plants. I will post a pic this evening of the tank if you would like to see it.

How the betta doing, hasn't lost anymore of it's fin.

He hasn't lost any more of his fins since I put him in solitary. But he is down to not too much fin left. Not unlike a female. MAYBE a little longer.

solitary being an floating breeding tank. He is still in the tank from which he came.

 

[rdd1952]

solitary being an floating breeding tank. He is still in the tank from which he came.

If it's possible, I would move him to a seperate tank in case the high pH is part of the problem (acclimated slowly to the lower pH of course). Their tails and fins grow back very slowly so it will be a while before you are able to notice any appreciable change for the good.

 

[Yarra]

solitary being an floating breeding tank. He is still in the tank from which he came.

If it's possible, I would move him to a seperate tank in case the high pH is part of the problem (acclimated slowly to the lower pH of course). Their tails and fins grow back very slowly so it will be a while before you are able to notice any appreciable change for the good.

The PH is now 6.8, has been for a day now. Is that too high for the betta?? or were you refering to my first reading of 8.somthing?

 

[rdd1952]

I was refering to the ph of 8.4 from an earlier post. The 6.8 should be perfect and he should be fine.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

There are somebad mistakes which i have to point out;

a. You got the rock from a limestone quarry, limestone and sandstones based rocks or rocks which contain metal ores are all very bad for changes in ph and adding the rock to the tank could have easily given your fish ph shock(a condition where the fish are not properly acclimatised to a different ph or experience fluctuations in ph and the fish eventually die from stress).

I THINK it came from limestone quarry, I am not sure. This rock looks NOTHING like the others that were there. I am going to give it another week, and watch my levels. If it proves to be a problem, I will remove it as soon as I deem it the culprit.

Do not use the PHdown! Ph altering chemicals should not be used by anyone who is not a knolegable and experienced fishkeeper

I am an experienced fish keeper. That is why this betta-fin thing has me stumped. That is why I came here. I have used PHdown before with great results. If I see that it starts to fluctuate or rise again. meaning, if the only way I can keep the PH down is to USE PHdown, then I will remove the rock and try that. At this point, it is going to be a process of elimination to see what the issue is. Right now though, the ph is steady, and I have yet to use PH down again.

Wether you cycled your tank or not with the betta(which would have been imposible in 1week) nothing could have prepared the tank for the sudden huge increase in bioload on the tank when you bought 10 fish in one day after the tank had been set up for such a short time at such a fragile stage.

The tank was allowed to cylcled 3 weeks. Ammonia and Nitrates were zero before adding any other fish. The fish were not all added at once. There never was a lethal ammonia spike. I checked all my levels 3 times a day.

do a 30% water change with dechlorinator(you do use that right?)

Of course I do. I am 31 years old and have had a some kind of fish in my life every day since I was 8.

no matter how low the levels may seem, nitrites and ammonia are lethal in levels anything abive 0 and the stress of having these toxins in the water could have brought the fin rot on(as long as your danios are not harming the betta).

Nitrites and Ammonia have never been above 0 at the times that I have tested, which is 3 times a day, while there have been fish in the tank. I apologize for leaving this info out. It might have been useful. I am starting to think the problem IS actually the danios.

The dragon eel, otherwise known as senegal bichir, is not suitable for your tank and will starve if you do not feed it appropriatly, it is a predatory fish that will exceed 1ft long when full grown and is not a good community tank fish.

My Bichir lives on a diet of frozen bloodworms, frozen shrimp and sinking shrimp pellets. I will be getting a 55 gal with in the year and he will move into that when he gets larger. On the contrary, in my experience, Birchirs can do well in a community tank, as long as their needs are met, and they are kept busy.

Do you know the genders of your platys?

I had one female and one male. The female has gone MIA. Maybe the Bichir ate her since he is a predator.

I strongly recommend you read up on "new tank syndrome" in the pinned artciles in the beginners section as you will most likely relate to it.

I came here with a problem with my betta. His fins were wasting away, and based on my pretty decent knowledge, I couldn't figure out why. I have had some VERY good answers in response to my questions, and I appreciate them all.

This one though, was just a little too 'in your face' for my taste. Basically, you didn't tell me anything I didn't already know, or that someone hadn't already suggested. But you acted as though i knew nothing. It was pretty insulting.

I am not some 9 year old coming here with a 10 gal I am trying to fill with 10 goldfish and 3 angles, because they are pretty! For the most part I know what I am doing. I took offence at the tone of your post. I am not sure if you felt you were being helpful, but it certainly came off as belligerent.

ASK me if I know anything about Bichirs. Don't tell me I am WRONG. Ask me if I have been informed, or if I understand. I will be happy to tell you WOW! I had no idea! Thanks! if such is the case, which often it can be, I as well as all of us, still have a lot to learn.

Thanks,
Kristin

I appologise for the misunderstanding and if i came across harsh/agressive in any way, it was very early in the morning and i was having troubles with my laptop and i assumed you cycled a tank and then added 10 fish and a limestone based rock in one day. As for treating the bettas fins, i have personally found a mix of aquarium salt and watered down dose of primafix(treats fungal, internal and external bacterial infections) and melafix- this combo acts very efectively against finrot, fungus or columnaris based infections .

 

[corpse fish]

There are somebad mistakes which i have to point out;

a. You got the rock from a limestone quarry, limestone and sandstones based rocks or rocks which contain metal ores are all very bad for changes in ph and adding the rock to the tank could have easily given your fish ph shock(a condition where the fish are not properly acclimatised to a different ph or experience fluctuations in ph and the fish eventually die from stress).

I THINK it came from limestone quarry, I am not sure. This rock looks NOTHING like the others that were there. I am going to give it another week, and watch my levels. If it proves to be a problem, I will remove it as soon as I deem it the culprit.

Do not use the PHdown! Ph altering chemicals should not be used by anyone who is not a knolegable and experienced fishkeeper

I am an experienced fish keeper. That is why this betta-fin thing has me stumped. That is why I came here. I have used PHdown before with great results. If I see that it starts to fluctuate or rise again. meaning, if the only way I can keep the PH down is to USE PHdown, then I will remove the rock and try that. At this point, it is going to be a process of elimination to see what the issue is. Right now though, the ph is steady, and I have yet to use PH down again.

Wether you cycled your tank or not with the betta(which would have been imposible in 1week) nothing could have prepared the tank for the sudden huge increase in bioload on the tank when you bought 10 fish in one day after the tank had been set up for such a short time at such a fragile stage.

The tank was allowed to cylcled 3 weeks. Ammonia and Nitrates were zero before adding any other fish. The fish were not all added at once. There never was a lethal ammonia spike. I checked all my levels 3 times a day.

do a 30% water change with dechlorinator(you do use that right?)

Of course I do. I am 31 years old and have had a some kind of fish in my life every day since I was 8.

no matter how low the levels may seem, nitrites and ammonia are lethal in levels anything abive 0 and the stress of having these toxins in the water could have brought the fin rot on(as long as your danios are not harming the betta).

Nitrites and Ammonia have never been above 0 at the times that I have tested, which is 3 times a day, while there have been fish in the tank. I apologize for leaving this info out. It might have been useful. I am starting to think the problem IS actually the danios.

The dragon eel, otherwise known as senegal bichir, is not suitable for your tank and will starve if you do not feed it appropriatly, it is a predatory fish that will exceed 1ft long when full grown and is not a good community tank fish.

My Bichir lives on a diet of frozen bloodworms, frozen shrimp and sinking shrimp pellets. I will be getting a 55 gal with in the year and he will move into that when he gets larger. On the contrary, in my experience, Birchirs can do well in a community tank, as long as their needs are met, and they are kept busy.

Do you know the genders of your platys?

I had one female and one male. The female has gone MIA. Maybe the Bichir ate her since he is a predator.

I strongly recommend you read up on "new tank syndrome" in the pinned artciles in the beginners section as you will most likely relate to it.

I came here with a problem with my betta. His fins were wasting away, and based on my pretty decent knowledge, I couldn't figure out why. I have had some VERY good answers in response to my questions, and I appreciate them all.

This one though, was just a little too 'in your face' for my taste. Basically, you didn't tell me anything I didn't already know, or that someone hadn't already suggested. But you acted as though i knew nothing. It was pretty insulting.

I am not some 9 year old coming here with a 10 gal I am trying to fill with 10 goldfish and 3 angles, because they are pretty! For the most part I know what I am doing. I took offence at the tone of your post. I am not sure if you felt you were being helpful, but it certainly came off as belligerent.

ASK me if I know anything about Bichirs. Don't tell me I am WRONG. Ask me if I have been informed, or if I understand. I will be happy to tell you WOW! I had no idea! Thanks! if such is the case, which often it can be, I as well as all of us, still have a lot to learn.

Thanks,
Kristin

I agree, every post i have read from you has always been harsh and atleast somewhat mean. I reccomend you read up on "how to answer questions nicely without acting like you know everything"

 

[wuvmybetta]

*cough*
Is it possible that the danios are nipping at the betta?

 

[lavapeanut]

danio loves nip fins (at least what I can tell from my tank... ) but in a school of eight... maybe not? Wish your betta getting better soon

 

[Tolak]

If that rock ends up being the problem, check out local landscaping outfits for cheap, good looking rock. I spent $10 for around 100 pounds of rock almost 2 years ago. I have rock for life.

If the pH remains stable, I would suspect the danios also. I've had them with smaller angels, they do tend to nip. They do ok with large adult angels though. All I can figure is perhaps the size of the larger angels is a little intimidating, and the danios are big enough not to get eaten, but are close enough to food size to be thought of as such by the larger angels.

Tolak