Fin And Rock Trouble

[Yarra]

HELP!!

I am new here, not to aquaria, just the forum. I am however just coming back to the fish world after a 5 year hiatus. I have had bettas, but as for a filtered set up, this is the first in a while.

Here is my problem.

After cycling my tank, (left the betta in as the filters came off a known and established tank) I added 8 danios, 2 platies and a dinosaur eel.

They have all been happy for about 4 days now. Last night I saw that some of the danois have shortened and white edged fins. I cannot tell if it is fuzzy, as in a fungus, as they move so fast. I can only tell that they are shorter, jagged and clearly ripped or torn.

Sampson, my betta, i noticed last night had a split tail fin and part of his dorsal was missing. Today I noticed that MORE of his fins were almost shredded looking.

ONE of my platies is MIA

and I am unsure about this rock my Boyfriend and i pulled out of a quarry. Could someone please tell me what it is? It doesn't seem to be affecting the ph. But I am not sure I like it anyway, it seems too jagged and I wonder if that is what is ripping my betta. The blue danios don't seem to be a ripping issue, they seem to "have something" that is causing the fin shortage. I could be wrong though.

as for Samson, I am thinking of putting him in one of those in-tank betta containers for the time being until I get it figured out. He is having a BALL swimming around, I would hate to not let him continue. But his finage is SO pretty, very pretty color, I would hate to see him loose all of that.

I have listed the links to the pictures, I didn't want to post them, they are full size and HUGE. I left them this way so that you could see fins and rock up close to help me identify things.

Thanks so much Y'all. I appreciate any help you can give me.


Pic #1 = Sampson and one of the rocks in the tank
http/i29.photobucket.com/albums/c262/kdzrok/IMG_0597.jpg

Pic #2 = Sampson
http/i29.photobucket.com/albums/c262/kdzrok/IMG_0610.jpg

Pic #3 = Rock
http/i29.photobucket.com/albums/c262/kdzrok/IMG_0589.jpg

 

[WILDER]

How many litres or gallons is the tank, can you post water stats in ammonia,nitrite,nitrate,and ph, have you seen any fin nipping going on, remove the rock, any fine red lines in the fins or red streaks, the betta is a handsome fellow but i don't like the look off his fin, you will need to medicate with a bacterial med.

http/www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/finrot.htm

 

[Yarra]

How many litres or gallons is the tank, can you post water stats in ammonia,nitrite,nitrate,and ph, have you seen any fin nipping going on, remove the rock, any fine red lines in the fins or red streaks, the betta is a handsome fellow but i don't like the look off his fin, you will need to medicate with a bacterial med.

http/www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/finrot.htm

The tank is a 29 gal

I do not have water stats to post, but I can get those up later tonight. I have seen fin nipping among the danios, but they leave the betta alone. That I have been watching for. Knowing now that rocks can rip at long pretty betta fins, I think it is the rocks.

Any idea what kind they are? I am going tonight to get a 'hang-on-the-side-tank' for the betta. He will be better off in there for the time being I think.

 

[WILDER]

Sorry couldn't tell you which rock it is, but i would get it out of the tank, good luck with the betta.

 

[rdd1952]

The rock does look pretty rough and jagged. It could definitely tear his fins. I would also suggest replacing it with something smoother. I don't know what type it is either. Is it all natural or has it been painted? It almost looks like it could be some type petrified wood.

 

[Yarra]

The rock does look pretty rough and jagged. It could definitely tear his fins. I would also suggest replacing it with something smoother. I don't know what type it is either. Is it all natural or has it been painted? It almost looks like it could be some type petrified wood.

It is all natural as far as I know. We pulled the three pieces out of a quarry down the road. Limestone is pretty popular I think here in Central Texas. There seemed to be a lot of lime stone in the quarry with it.


I did a water test today. The bettas fins are getting shorter and shorter. NONE of the fish seem stressed, all are happy and the betta is now ticked that I have him in an in-tank breeder, just to keep him still for a while.

The water results were as follows, I used strips.

Amonia = 0 MAYBE .05
PH = 8.4
Alkalinity = 60
Hardness =250
N02 = 0
NO3 = 40

ANY clue as to what is going on? I am really worried about my betta. I know it is horrible, but I couldn't care less about the danios. My betta has moved across the coutry with me, then uprooted a couple months after that and moved a few hours north again. He is a trooper. He is an older fish. I would hate for this to do him in. He deserves to go out with style. Not like this.

The eel and the platy are just peachy.

here is a pic of the eel. (which tech is a fish i think)

 

[WILDER]

That eel has a cute face, i would add some melafix for now.

 

[rdd1952]

Bettas, like most fish, are pretty adaptable to water conditions but a pH of 8.4 is pretty high for a betta. The range generally list is 6.0 to 8.0 but most tropicals prefer neutral to slightly acidic. Since you said the rocks were limestone, that is the reason for the high pH. Limestone will drive the pH up quite a bit. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the high pH is the cause of his tail and fins being ripped but it could definitely be a contributing factor and fuel any other problems.

 

[Yarra]

Okay, went and got some PHdown and some melafix and bought some plants.

The betta is now in a floating breeding cage. So not happy, but at least he can rest and not drift unwillingly around the tank now.

Here are the latest readings. I didn't test amonia as it was 0 earlier today. I am concerned with PH and hardness right now.

pH = 6.8
Alk = 80
Hard = 190
NO2 = 0
NO3 = 40

What do you all think? It has been YEARS since I have kept an aquarium. I feel like such a noobie.

Thanks!

 

[WILDER]

Not bad by the results keep up the good work, that fin on the betta looks like a clear cut, so it could of been the rock.

 

[Yarra]

Not bad by the results keep up the good work, that fin on the betta looks like a clear cut, so it could of been the rock.

Thanks, I thought the numbers looked good. It is good to get a more knowledgeable opinion though.

The betta's fins are MUCH worse now. He looks like a female.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

There are somebad mistakes which i have to point out;

a. You got the rock from a limestone quarry, limestone and sandstones based rocks or rocks which contain metal ores are all very bad for changes in ph and adding the rock to the tank could have easily given your fish ph shock(a condition where the fish are not properly acclimatised to a different ph or experience fluctuations in ph and the fish eventually die from stress).
b. Do not use the PHdown! Ph altering chemicals should not be used by anyone who is not a knolegable and experienced fishkeeper, the issues with ph boosters is that they create an artificial enviroment of temporary ph which is very suspectable to fluctuations and difficult to moniter ph chemical levels when doing water changes, many people have accidentally killed their fish with these chemicals. Take the rock out and do a 40% water change.
c. Wether you cycled your tank or not with the betta(which would have been imposible in 1week) nothing could have prepared the tank for the sudden huge increase in bioload on the tank when you bought 10 fish in one day after the tank had been set up for such a short time at such a fragile stage.
The beneficial bacteria that was growing in your filter from the cycling could not handle the huge increase in ammonia and you had an ammonia spike. When ammonia or nitrites rise above 0 you must imediatly do a 30% water change with dechlorinator(you do use that right?) no matter how low the levels may seem, nitrites and ammonia are lethal in levels anything abive 0 and the stress of having these toxins in the water could have brought the fin rot on(as long as your danios are not harming the betta).
d. The dragon eel, otherwise known as senegal bichir, is not suitable for your tank and will starve if you do not feed it appropriatly, it is a predatory fish that will exceed 1ft long when full grown and is not a good community tank fish. Do you know the genders of your platys?
e. I strongly recommend you read up on "new tank syndrome" in the pinned artciles in the beginners section as you will most likely relate to it.

 

[rdd1952]

Okay, went and got some PHdown and some melafix and bought some plants.

Stay away from pH Down. That will do nothing but put your pH in constant swing, down after you add it and hen back up as the limestone pulls in back. Remove the limestone. It definitely isn't a good rock for aquariums unless you are keeping african cichlids which need pH in the 8.0 or higher range.

 

[Yarra]

There are somebad mistakes which i have to point out;

a. You got the rock from a limestone quarry, limestone and sandstones based rocks or rocks which contain metal ores are all very bad for changes in ph and adding the rock to the tank could have easily given your fish ph shock(a condition where the fish are not properly acclimatised to a different ph or experience fluctuations in ph and the fish eventually die from stress).

I THINK it came from limestone quarry, I am not sure. This rock looks NOTHING like the others that were there. I am going to give it another week, and watch my levels. If it proves to be a problem, I will remove it as soon as I deem it the culprit.

Do not use the PHdown! Ph altering chemicals should not be used by anyone who is not a knolegable and experienced fishkeeper

I am an experienced fish keeper. That is why this betta-fin thing has me stumped. That is why I came here. I have used PHdown before with great results. If I see that it starts to fluctuate or rise again. meaning, if the only way I can keep the PH down is to USE PHdown, then I will remove the rock and try that. At this point, it is going to be a process of elimination to see what the issue is. Right now though, the ph is steady, and I have yet to use PH down again.

Wether you cycled your tank or not with the betta(which would have been imposible in 1week) nothing could have prepared the tank for the sudden huge increase in bioload on the tank when you bought 10 fish in one day after the tank had been set up for such a short time at such a fragile stage.

The tank was allowed to cylcled 3 weeks. Ammonia and Nitrates were zero before adding any other fish. The fish were not all added at once. There never was a lethal ammonia spike. I checked all my levels 3 times a day.

do a 30% water change with dechlorinator(you do use that right?)

Of course I do. I am 31 years old and have had a some kind of fish in my life every day since I was 8.

no matter how low the levels may seem, nitrites and ammonia are lethal in levels anything abive 0 and the stress of having these toxins in the water could have brought the fin rot on(as long as your danios are not harming the betta).

Nitrites and Ammonia have never been above 0 at the times that I have tested, which is 3 times a day, while there have been fish in the tank. I apologize for leaving this info out. It might have been useful. I am starting to think the problem IS actually the danios.

The dragon eel, otherwise known as senegal bichir, is not suitable for your tank and will starve if you do not feed it appropriatly, it is a predatory fish that will exceed 1ft long when full grown and is not a good community tank fish.

My Bichir lives on a diet of frozen bloodworms, frozen shrimp and sinking shrimp pellets. I will be getting a 55 gal with in the year and he will move into that when he gets larger. On the contrary, in my experience, Birchirs can do well in a community tank, as long as their needs are met, and they are kept busy.

Do you know the genders of your platys?

I had one female and one male. The female has gone MIA. Maybe the Bichir ate her since he is a predator.

I strongly recommend you read up on "new tank syndrome" in the pinned artciles in the beginners section as you will most likely relate to it.

I came here with a problem with my betta. His fins were wasting away, and based on my pretty decent knowledge, I couldn't figure out why. I have had some VERY good answers in response to my questions, and I appreciate them all.

This one though, was just a little too 'in your face' for my taste. Basically, you didn't tell me anything I didn't already know, or that someone hadn't already suggested. But you acted as though i knew nothing. It was pretty insulting.

I am not some 9 year old coming here with a 10 gal I am trying to fill with 10 goldfish and 3 angles, because they are pretty! For the most part I know what I am doing. I took offence at the tone of your post. I am not sure if you felt you were being helpful, but it certainly came off as belligerent.

ASK me if I know anything about Bichirs. Don't tell me I am WRONG. Ask me if I have been informed, or if I understand. I will be happy to tell you WOW! I had no idea! Thanks! if such is the case, which often it can be, I as well as all of us, still have a lot to learn.

Thanks,
Kristin

 

[WILDER]

How the betta doing, hasn't lost anymore of it's fin.