Fighting Fish

[Paul70]

Hi
Until this morning I had 4 female siamese fighting fish in my tank. last night one of them just began laying on the bottom of the tank and appeared dead however when I went to retrieve it she kicked into life and swam away. she then started to float around the tank with no control over her body.

this morning I got up and she was much worse and only had a hint of life in her. I euthanised her to end her suffering but now 2 others are showing the same symptoms. one is much worse than the other. i also have guppies in my tank which are really lively and show no problems. i have recently added 4 new vallis plants and 2 new female guppies.

any ideas about cause and treatment please.
water parameters are
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
pH 7.6

 

[Paul70]

they have now died.

 

[Athena]

Oh dear, Paul - really sorry to hear this. Sorry also that nobody was able to give any advice earlier - but given that they died so soon after your post, I doubt there would have been any treatment you could have given to prevent it that quickly, other than perhaps a water change as soon as symptoms were showing.

Ok, so let's see if we can fathom out what went wrong...

You posted water stats above - when was that last test taken? And what testing method did you use? Do you have a test for nitrate?

When did you last do a water change and how much?

What temperature is your water at?

What were you feeding the bettas and how often?

Let's deal with those questions first and see where that takes us.

Regards, Athena

 

[Paul70]

many thanks for your response athena.

the water was tested 3 days ago using the api master test kit and instructions followed to the letter.
water temp is 26-27c. 50% water changed 4 days ago and new water treated with seachem prime as instructions. I am feeding the bettas a mix of nutrafin earthworm flakes and brine shrimp flakes and occasional treats of frozen bloodworm and daphnia perhaps every 3 days alternating these.

i got home this afternoon and all 4 bettas are now dead in less than 24hours. also one of my new female guppies (purchased 3 days ago) was dead. i wonder if this guppy was infected with something nasty and this has been passed to the bettas. all other guppies in the tank are not showing any signs of illness.

after removing my dead fish today i have again changed 50% of the water and treated the new stuff with a disease control medicine with the hope that this well neutralise any bugs that may be present and hopefully stave off any further losses.

 

[Athena]

Hi Paul

Hmmm, well you seem to have been doing everything right. It sounds to me like a parasitic infestation, but which one I really don't know.

Were there any outward physical signs on the fish - any discolouration, white/grey/red/black patches, excess slime, ragged fins, spots, lumps, powdery coating, twitching, flicking, rubbing, swelling, weight loss/hollow bellies, rapid gill movement, clamped fins etc??...anything at all other than just happily swimming about one day and dead the next?

You mentioned in your post that one of the bettas wasn't swimming properly, just hanging about at the top and being carried around by the water current...that would most likely indicate some internal parasite that has attacked the brain at that point.

Seems logical that if your tank has been kept in tip-top condition and all water stats have been continually spot on, then this problem must have been brought into the tank via an external source, somehow (the new fish?).

Regards, Athena

 

[comocrayfish5]

youre ph looks a little high.... it should be 7.0-7.3

 

[fluttermoth]

youre ph looks a little high.... it should be 7.0-7.3

A pH of 7.6 isn't too high.

 

[SJM]

SORRY TO HEAR OF YOUR LOSS

most fish need a PH balance between7.0 alkaline to 6.3 Acidic

If your Ph is highly or low under these then alot of problems will occour as fish cannot live in that level, like if our PH water leavel was wrong and we drink it anyway, we would get very sick

On this amazing site you will find many fourums which will help you

Also a Ph kit will have the chart on it

Due to you PH inbalance it could mean it is making your fish sick and attacking there immune system, and due to stress could be giving them swim bladder, which causes them to swim around of balance, and upside down .?

let me know how you go.
Also make sure you tank is not over stocked, calculate this by each fish, on there maximum groing size, each fish should have approx that much space to it to another fish e.g a baby fish that wil grow to 10cm needs 10cm around it.

and check your heater is working correct.

 

[Paul70]

I know my pH is a little high but there is absolutely nothing I can do about this as i live in a hard water area. Unless I buy an RO unit and lots of chemicals I am destined to always have high pH. I have tried peat balls and blackwater extract and this has helped slightly but not to the degree that I had hoped.

Don't know what to do.

 

[the_lock_man]

youre ph looks a little high.... it should be 7.0-7.3

most fish need a PH balance between7.0 alkaline to 6.3 Acidic

I believe that both of these posts are ill-advised. Certain fish come from naturally acidic (low pH) areas, others from naturally alkali (high pH) areas, yet more from neutral (pH ~ 7.0). My own tanks have a pH of around 7.8, as I live in an area where the rain filters through chalk into the water company's reservoirs.

In practice, many fish that we buy from LFS are captive-bred. If they are gradually acclimatised to the water pH in their new home, many fish will survive happily in water characteristics that differ greatly from their "natural" water.

I'm sure that both posts were well-intentioned, but would be interested to hear these views expanded upon.

 

[@ombomb]

I believe that both of these posts are ill-advised. Certain fish come from naturally acidic (low pH) areas, others from naturally alkali (high pH) areas, yet more from neutral (pH ~ 7.0). My own tanks have a pH of around 7.8, as I live in an area where the rain filters through chalk into the water company's reservoirs.

In practice, many fish that we buy from LFS are captive-bred. If they are gradually acclimatised to the water pH in their new home, many fish will survive happily in water characteristics that differ greatly from their "natural" water.

totally agree with this

unless a fish requires a specific ph range (i.e. african cichlids) then trying to alter it will be more likely to cause harm than good

 

[Rynofasho]

Seriously, no offense to anyone, but if you cannot give sound advice, don't give it. 7.6 is absolutely fine for those fish and in all honesty they'd probably do ok in a pH of 6.6 or 8.6 too. They're pretty tough fish and thrive in many conditions. pH is one of the LAST things you should be worried about, not the first.

 

[ProjectMayhem]

Seriously, no offense to anyone, but if you cannot give sound advice, don't give it. 7.6 is absolutely fine for those fish and in all honesty they'd probably do ok in a pH of 6.6 or 8.6 too. They're pretty tough fish and thrive in many conditions. pH is one of the LAST things you should be worried about, not the first.

You're right, hardwater gives the water a higher Ph read anyway so if you're in a hardwater area you can expect a Ph of up to 8.5 and still will not be detrimental to the fishes health.