Fertilizer Question

[xoedusk]

Recently upgraded from < 1 WPG to 4 WPG and added a Nutrafin CO2 system. Created soooo much green algae. We only have 1 very dense packet of amazon swords in there (20 gallon long).

So far we've been fertilizing with Seachem Flourish and nothing else. Will this provide all the necessary nutrients? The new sword growth is very pale. Would love to get rid of that algae too. Any ideas?

20 gallon long
4 WPG, 12 hours per day
Nutrafin CO2 (between 15 and 25 ppm)
kH 3

 

[nry]

Lots of light + few plants = algae.

If you want 4wpg (which is a lot!) then you are probably going to need more plants, either that or cut your lighting period right down, though that may not be too good for the plants long term. Do you monitor your CO2 levels?

 

[Themuleous]

You'll need more plants and to dose ferts, PO4 and NO3. And find a way to increase the CO2!

Sam

 

[xoedusk]

Thank you for the replies.

Lots of light + few plants = algae.

If you want 4wpg (which is a lot!) then you are probably going to need more plants, either that or cut your lighting period right down, though that may not be too good for the plants long term. Do you monitor your CO2 levels?

An excuse to get more plants, you say? Would java ferns help much with the algae?

When we first installed the CO2 system, we adjusted the airpump output rate to keep a semi-constant CO2 rate (near 24 ppm). Sometimes it falls to around 15 ppm.

You'll need more plants and to dose ferts, PO4 and NO3. And find a way to increase the CO2!

I've seen other fertilizers in the LPS in the NPK range of 0-0-5. This would not suffice, I suppose.
Does this mean, Themuleous, that the nitrates in the water aren't enough for plants' needs for nitrogen?

I'm doing my best to avoid any EI routine. Is there any way to safely dose phosphate and nitrogen without this?

 

[Dave Spencer]

Java Ferns are not the answer as they are slow growing, and will be particularly susceptible to algae. Buy them once the faster growing plants have established themselves. The type of plants you will need to look at are fast growing stem plants such as Hygrophilia Polysperma, Egeria Densa, Vallis sp., Rotala sp. They may not be your plant of choice, but provided you plant heavily with them from the outset, they should get the upper hand over the algae and you can then replace them with plants such as Java fern.

I am a total beginner, been in the hobby for a month, running a system that is heaven for all types of algae. I dose using the EI system and I find it very simple to follow. You know what you are putting in to your tank provided you follow the routine. Trust me, there is nothing to fear from this system, even for a beginner. Whatever route you choose, with your lighting levels you will need to plant heavily (cover virtually the whole of your substrate) with fast growers and give these plants an abundance of the the nutrients they need.

So speaks a whole month`s worth of experience.

 

[Themuleous]

The problem you've got it that you've got a huge amount of light (how big is the tank?) and with that much light the plants will quickly use up the available PO4 and NO3 in the tank, which if not replaced will mean the plants cant grow, allowing the algae to take hold. If you dont want to do the EI thing then the Seachem range of ferts and doseing is supposed to be good. But either way with that much light you will need to add mode NO3 and PO4 for sure. And a stable 30ppm CO2.

Sam

 

[xoedusk]

It is a 20 gallon, long (approximate or same height as 10 gallon).

Thanks all for the great info. We had two canopies running, one 65 W and one 18 or so Watts. Removed the 18 W one. Will most likely try to get some more Seachem products.

 

[paulf]

Rather than spend a fortune on seachem ferts, have a look on Greg Watsons site, much cheaper and better imo.
I import it to the uk off greg and its still cheaper than buying seachem ferts

 

[xoedusk]

Is it bad to add potassium supplements? I notice that Themuleous recommends NO3 and PO4 only, which I believe provides nitrogen and phosphorus.

 

[Themuleous]

First off you can get dry ferts from Aquaessentials.co.uk. and no its not bad to add potassium supplements!

PO4 and NO3 are normally all that you need to add to a tank, some people like to add extra K, but PO4 comes in the form KH2PO4 and NO3 comes as KNO3, so more often than not adding both these provides the tank with enough K anyway so adding extra isn't normally needed. Start with these two and see how you go, the plants will tell you if you need to add a K supplement.

Sam

 

[Underwurlde]

Great responses so far. 100% agree

@xeodusk:

I'm doing my best to avoid any EI routine. Is there any way to safely dose phosphate and nitrogen without this?

Can I ask, why?

Andy

 

[xoedusk]

Thanks all for the great responses. Learning a lot from everyone.

Great responses so far. 100% agree

@xeodusk:

I'm doing my best to avoid any EI routine. Is there any way to safely dose phosphate and nitrogen without this?

Can I ask, why?

Andy

Partly because I'm a college student. But really that's just a convenient excuse - the real reason is I'd like a low-maintenance tank so I can enjoy the fish and not have to worry too much about which fertilizer is running out. I'm sure it's possible to do both, but I also know myself - fishkeeping wouldn't be as fun /for me/.

 

[Themuleous]

If you want a low maintenance tank, I'd cut the lighting in half. 4WPG even over a 20G is a lot of light. Light is generally the limiting factor which determines the 'maintenance' level of a tank and without CO2 you'll be plagued by algae in no time. Reduce the light and you'll probably not need CO2 (although it would be benficital, of course).

Sam

 

[JamesC]

As Sam has said if you want low maintenance then cut your light by at least 50%. If you wish to keep your high light then the easiest dosing method is EI. Dosing EI ferts is as easy as feeding fish, if not easier when you get into a routine. Weekly water change takes minutes if you use something like a Python water changer. Compare this to a none EI method where you have to constantly test for several parameters several times a week and then dose accordingly. I know which I prefer to do.

James