fertilizer advice please

[BeckyCats]

Hello,
I have a planted tank that has been set up for some years. I used to use fertilizer tablets that go under the sand but I ran out quite some time ago and never bothered replacing them. I haven't used anything in over a year (almost 2) and the plants are looking pale. My water sprite, which was luxurious, is now almost gone. My java fern is less than half what it used to be, and I never was able to keep any small foreground plants, even with the fertilizer tabs.

It seems obvious to me that I need to get back to fertilizing again, but I'm undecided what to use. Should I use liquid? Tablets again (they worked okay, but never great, I don't think)? Should I try liquid carbon dioxide? It would be nice if I could grow some of the tiny grasses or other foreground plants that I've never had luck with.

My water tends to be on the softer side. I do weekly water changes and have about a dozen small fish and a bamboo shrimp. The inhabitants health is the most important thing and I am unwilling to dose with anything that might hurt them. I am also not willing to get any co2 setup or do any of the diy ones. Liquid (or other simple method) is as much as I am willing to do for carbon dioxide, but it does make me very nervous as my water already has low pH.

Thanks for any advice!

 

[seangee]

Don't use liquid CO2 in a tank where you have fish or shrimp. Its poisonous. Root tabs are best for root feeding plants that are planted in the substrate. For floating and rhizome plants a liquid feed is best as these take nutrients from the water column. I use flourish comprehensive at half the recommended dosage.

Does your tank use fluorescant tubes? If so these should be replaced every year - even if they look ok. Mentioning because that may be a contributing factor to your plants' decline.

 

[BeckyCats]

Hmm. Come to think of it, it is time to change the bulb. I usually change it once a year in January or February and I haven't done it yet this year. Thanks for the reminder!

I'm glad you tell me about the liquid CO2. I will stay away from it. I have to run out later and will pick up a new bulb and some tabs and liquid flourish. That is the brand of fertilizer tabs I used last time.

I bought some new plants earlier and am letting them soak out the snails. I have found 2 so far (one pond snail and one with a cone-shaped shell). Of course, I haven't done anything with them. Just looked at them and put them back in the soaking bowl. I'm actually okay with snails, but I'm not sure if I should be nervous about them in this tank. I don't currently have any snails, thanks to a temporary visit from a goldfish, who apparently found them delicious. Do you think I should fret about introducing the ones that came "free" with my plant purchase? This will sound pathetic, but I would bring them back to the store before I killed them. I don't have the heart to kill them. I've never had the cone-shaped ones before (looks like a tiny brown assassin snail) but I've had pond snails and I know that they don't get out of hand unless one overfeeds. Of course, there are probably snail eggs all over the plants anyway. Should I do a brief dip in salt water? I've tried that before and got snails anyway, so I'm not sure it really works.

Oh, and I did find frogbit at this store. I admired it in your signature, so was happy to find some for purchase. She only charged me a dollar for it too! It is a very small amount, but still, $1 is cheap. I noticed that in addition to free snails, she also gave me free duck weed. Not sure how delighted I am with that, but oh well - ha ha! The fish should be pleased and if it gets crazy, I can always scoop some out. In a year or so (plus or minus) when all of the current inhabitants die of old age, I am seriously considering turning this into a fiddler crab habitat and/or a paludarium of sorts - brackish, so I'm sure many of the plants wouldn't survive the transition. Although, the better ones, I could bring to the office tank at that time.

I also bought wisteria, pennywort, some freshwater seaweed (not sure how it will do, I've never had it before), and bacopa. This particular store has a decent variety of plants but they aren't exactly precious about keeping the plants separated. They just toss stuff in the tanks and if it doesn't sell for a while, it can grow together. I got rather a handful of stuff when she was pulling out the pennywort and the "seaweed" (not sure what it really is). But I'm not fussy about that sort of thing and like a jungley look in my aquarium anyway.

Sorry for the long-winded reply. Besides one person at work, I don't have anyone around me that is interested in fish or aquariums (or snails - lol), and that one person is only moderately interested, so it is easy to get carried away on here sometimes.

I would appreciate hearing opinions on whether I should worry about the snails or if I should toss them in the tank with the plants?

 

[BeckyCats]

So, there appear to be 3 varieties of bonus snail that came free with purchase today. Are any of these anything to worry about? As long as they aren't harmful to the fish or shrimp, I dont mind them. The bottom one is the kind I've had before, that I've called pond snails, but I may have misnamed them. The other 2, I've never knowingly had before.

 

[seangee]

Do a search for malaysian trumpet snail (the conical one). I have these in all my tanks and am fine with this. The same applies about overfeeding and they are easy enough to trap if you get too many. They produce live young (so no eggs) and will spend most of the time burrowing in the sand while the lights are on. This keeps it aerated and they feed off any organic matter they find, but won't eat living plants or fish. I can't comment on the other 2 because I only have MTS

Personally I would get rid of the duckweed if you can. I also have this in all my tanks and its almost impossible to get rid of once its in. I do just scoop it out at water change time but I suspect I'll never be rid of it.

 

[BeckyCats]

I just watched a Rachel O'Leary video on pest snails (love her!). According to what I learned, I have a ram's horn, mts, and bladder snail. I've been incorrectly calling them pond snails, which are actually larger. According to her, the bladder snails are the most prolific and since those are the ones I've had and was okay with, I feel okay putting them in. None are dangerous to plants or fish. I always felt that if I saw too many it was a sign that I was overfeeding and to cut back.

I will take your advice on the duck weed and do what I can not to introduce it. I don't like the way it sticks to my hands every time I reach in the water to touch the other plants. If I had to deal with that every water change, I think it would be quite annoying.

 

[Retired Viking]

I have also received free snails with my plants just make sure you don't over feed your fish or you will have a lot more. I have a few ramshorn which I don't mind but the bladder snails really do breed like rabbits. I have removed over 150 so far. I wish I had received a free MTS or two

 

[seangee]

I wish I had received a free MTS or two

AFAIK you need (at least) 2.
I started my population with 4 way back in 2004.

 

[AbbeysDad]

I had a similar problem with plants failing in the absence of fertilizer. I stopped adding it routinely, and in took awhile, but the plants, especially the water sprite slowly began to disappear. I had had success with Seachem Flourish Comprehensive and Aquarium Co-op's Easy Green. I bought more Flourish Comp, began adding some with each water change, and plants came back. But I just don't like the fairly high cost of the liquid ferts! So I'm trying an experiment. I came across a website for Select Aquatics. Greg Sage is a master breeder of many years with some 120 tanks. He wondered about the ferts used in hydoponics and after years of experiments and working with manufacturers he's developed and sells a Rapid Grow Aquatic Fertilizer. It's granulated that you mix 1.5 tsp to a gallon of water. A 6 oz pkg of the fert is said to treat up to 44,000 gallons of water.
I bought some and have just started using it so I can't report on performance at this time but it looks promising to better support plant health and growth at a much lower cost than the commercial liquid ferts.

footnote: I also have MTS than manage the pool filter sand substrate in two of my tanks. They are GREAT!

 

[Colin_T]

So, there appear to be 3 varieties of bonus snail that came free with purchase today. Are any of these anything to worry about?

The top one is a Ramshorn snail
The middle one is a Malaysian Livebearing snail
The bottom one is a Lymnaea pond snail.

They will all breed out of control and in my opinion, you should murder the Malaysian Livebearer and the lymnaea and let the Ramshorn go nuts in the tank.

The Malaysian livebearer is the hardest snail to control in any pond or aquarium and are not nice to have.

 

[Byron]

I have a planted tank that has been set up for some years. I used to use fertilizer tablets that go under the sand but I ran out quite some time ago and never bothered replacing them. I haven't used anything in over a year (almost 2) and the plants are looking pale. My water sprite, which was luxurious, is now almost gone. My java fern is less than half what it used to be, and I never was able to keep any small foreground plants, even with the fertilizer tabs.

It seems obvious to me that I need to get back to fertilizing again, but I'm undecided what to use. Should I use liquid? Tablets again (they worked okay, but never great, I don't think)?

I'm going back to your original post to explain a couple things. First, substrate tabs benefit plants rooted in the substrate, but not those floating or attached to wood/rock. But with the substrate tabs, those plants are obviously taking more nutrients from the tabs rather than from the water column, which means the floating plants have somewhat more to help them. When the tabs were used up, all the plants were having to take nutrients from the water column, so they are somewhat deteriorated.

If the tabs helped (and depending upon their quality, they certainly should benefit substrate-rooted plants) you should continue to use them. Flourish Tabs are one of the best, much better than the API tabs; there may be equally good European brands I am not familiar with, but the Flourish Tabs are incredibly effective. The added benefit is they do not leech into the upper water column, and that means the fish are not being impacted at all. Liquid fertilizers can be necessary (I have to use them for my floating Water Sprite, Frogbit, Water Lettuce and Salvinia or these willnot survive because my water is very soft, GH is 0) but don't use more than you need for two reasons. First, they get inside the fish, and you want to keep this minimal. Second, if the liquid is providing more nutrients than the plants can use (this is in balance with the light), algae will become a nuisance as it takes advantage.

You also mentioned substrate-level "carpet" type plants...this is almost always a light issue, and light penetration is significantly reduced as it travels through water. I do not bother with carpet plants because I have no wish to provide bright lighting that then harms the fish, plus I have floating plants in all my tanks so light is further reduced. Some plants, the pygmy chain swords, can manage with less light than many other substrate plants, but up to a point.

 

[BeckyCats]

I'm going back to your original post to explain a couple things. First, substrate tabs benefit plants rooted in the substrate, but not those floating or attached to wood/rock. But with the substrate tabs, those plants are obviously taking more nutrients from the tabs rather than from the water column, which means the floating plants have somewhat more to help them. When the tabs were used up, all the plants were having to take nutrients from the water column, so they are somewhat deteriorated.

If the tabs helped (and depending upon their quality, they certainly should benefit substrate-rooted plants) you should continue to use them. Flourish Tabs are one of the best, much better than the API tabs; there may be equally good European brands I am not familiar with, but the Flourish Tabs are incredibly effective. The added benefit is they do not leech into the upper water column, and that means the fish are not being impacted at all. Liquid fertilizers can be necessary (I have to use them for my floating Water Sprite, Frogbit, Water Lettuce and Salvinia or these willnot survive because my water is very soft, GH is 0) but don't use more than you need for two reasons. First, they get inside the fish, and you want to keep this minimal. Second, if the liquid is providing more nutrients than the plants can use (this is in balance with the light), algae will become a nuisance as it takes advantage.

You also mentioned substrate-level "carpet" type plants...this is almost always a light issue, and light penetration is significantly reduced as it travels through water. I do not bother with carpet plants because I have no wish to provide bright lighting that then harms the fish, plus I have floating plants in all my tanks so light is further reduced. Some plants, the pygmy chain swords, can manage with less light than many other substrate plants, but up to a point.

I have now added Flourish tabs (the same as what I had before that worked well) and also Flourish liquid for the floating plants. If I get algae, I'll stop the liquid.

That's good to hear about the carpet plants. Glad it's not just me doing something wrong. I gave up on them after about the 5th or so plant just melted away. One gets tired of watching money dissolve into the water!

Today, I changed out the bulb because it was time. I usually get full-spectrum but this time I got Aqueon's "Floramax" for plants. I'm not sure I like it. It is much dimmer. The upside is that all the fish with red look amazing. The espe rasboras look incredible! But I keep waiting for the bulb to brighten up. I suppose I'll get used to it eventually, but I'm not sure if I want this. I put the full spectrum one back in and it looked washed out in comparison, so now I'm totally undecided. Is there a middle of the road bulb? Something that makes the colors look great but also helps the plants grow? Or should I try to get used to the floramax?

Okay, just did some reading on this site and others about the light, and I'm going to exchange it. Besides, it is driving me crazy - so dim!

 

[Byron]

Today, I changed out the bulb because it was time. I usually get full-spectrum but this time I got Aqueon's "Floramax" for plants. I'm not sure I like it. It is much dimmer. The upside is that all the fish with red look amazing. The espe rasboras look incredible! But I keep waiting for the bulb to brighten up. I suppose I'll get used to it eventually, but I'm not sure if I want this. I put the full spectrum one back in and it looked washed out in comparison, so now I'm totally undecided. Is there a middle of the road bulb? Something that makes the colors look great but also helps the plants grow? Or should I try to get used to the floramax?

Okay, just did some reading on this site and others about the light, and I'm going to exchange it. Besides, it is driving me crazy - so dim!

This is a good idea. I have tried/used many of the T8 tubes over the last decade; ZooMed, GE, Hagen, Aqueon, and I can't remember what else. All of those aimed at "plants" are not good; their intensity is sometimes as much as half that of a "daylight," and the colour rendition is terrible. Reds and blues do intensify, but the lack of green not only renders the colours badly, it weakens the intensity.

Daylight tubes are high in the red, bleu and green, with a Kelvin rating around 6500K. Scientifically-controlled studies have shown that this light does bring out the best response in aquarium plants. But not all 6500K are the same intensity, or colour rendition.

If you have T8 fluorescent tube light, the absolute best single tube is the Life-Glo. This tube is more intense, and offers a true colour rendition as close to mid-day sun as it gets. If you have two tubes in the fixture, you can use one Life-Glo and a second tube that is more "warm;" I use a ZooMed Tropic Sun for the second 24-inch tube over my 40g, and it adds a touch more red (warmth). But for a single tube, nothing beats the Life-Glo. They do cost more, but they are well worth it. I replace mine every 12-13 months; I let them go for 15 months once as a test, and by then they had weakened to the extent that plant growth was not responding as well and algae appeared. Chaning them at 12-13 months avoids that.

 

[BeckyCats]

What about LEDs? I'm considering one of those setups that turn on and off slowly and where you can adjust the light. The slow on/off seems nicer for the fish rather than the sudden on/off that they have now. It is a big up front price difference of course though. Are they better/worse/same for plants as florescents?

 

[Retired Viking]

LED are nice and do a better job but like you said there is a cost. I use t8 fluorescent and turn them off at 9pm and have a lamp on in the room until 10pm, gives a setting sun effect .