Female Guppy Not Right..

[darkmerlin21]

I have a female guppy that gave birth 5 days ago, so I have 10 fry in the same tank as her and my other fish. Last night I could not immediately see her when I looked into the aquarium and after a quick search I found her laying amongst an ornament I have (kinda a fake anemone thingy). She did eventually swim up to the top when I fed the other fish but she did not eat.. just kinda swam through it all..

Today I noticed her flashing on the bottom, plants, etc... It seems to be her mouth that is bothering her. I cannot be sure but it appears that her mouth is kinda fuzzy. My questions are-1: Can I use meds with the fry in the tank? And 2: Being as I cannot conclusively say what she has wrong with her, what should I use, if anything?

Unfortunaltely, the only test kit I have been able to find where I live is the one for ammonia. Did a test last night and it was between 0.25 and 0.50. My tank is just over 5 weeks old, it is a 5 gallon and I have 3 gup, 2 cories and the fry (cycling a 10 gallon right now to transfer the bigger fish to).

Any help is greatly appreciated. If I lose the sick fish I at least want to insure the others do not become ill as well.

 

[tttnjfttt]

It sounds like she has "mouth fungus" which is actually a bacterial infection known as columnaris. My guess is that the stress from giving birth and the ammonia in the water weakened her immune system.

I would isolate her to avoid having to medicate the fry, as they can be more sensitive to pollutants in the water. Put her in a hospital tank and slowly lower the temperature to 72* F, dropping no more than 2* F per day (1* C). Also, put in an air stone. Columnaris thrives in warm water with low oxygen, so you cooling the tank and making sure you have plenty of oxygen will help fight this disease. Add 1 tablespoon of salt for every 5 gallons, and you will need to treat with an antibiotic. Some possibilities are eythromyicin (aka maracyn), kanacyn (aka kanamyicin) and tetracycline. Be careful with tetracycline, as it can kill some of the beneficial bacteria in the tank.

As for your main tank, you need to begin daily water changes to bring the ammonia levels down to zero. You also need to get a nitrite test kit. Both ammonia and nitrite are toxic to fish. What happens is beneficial bacteria will turn the amonia into nitrite. Then another set of bacteria will turn the nitrite into nitrate. Nitrate is safe for fish in higher concentrations. Because your tank is still cycling, it is also important to know the levels of nitrite.

I am not the writer of this information.
Columnaris (a.k.a. Mouth Fungus)

Symptoms:

An infected fish will have off-white to gray cotton-like patches on the head, fins, gills, body and particularly the mouth. In time, these areas will develop into open sores. Gill swelling may occur, gill filaments may stick together and excessive mucus may develop in the gill area. Rapid breathing can be seen. Fins may deteriorate to the point of leaving the fin rays bare. Muscles may be inflamed and capillaries may rupture. Fish, particularly livebearers, may exhibit "shimmying". Infection may be acute (killing an infected fish within hours), or chronic (lingering for several days before eventually killing the fish). As with most diseases, not all symptoms need be present.


Cause:

The bacterium Flexibacter columnaris.


Treatment:

Ensure that your water conditions (e.g., Ammonia, Nitrite, pH, Nitrate levels, and water temp.) are within their proper ranges. If not, perform a water change and/or treat the water accordingly. Recommended medications include: Furanace, Fungus Eliminator, Fungus Cure, Furacyn, Furan-2, Triple Sulfa, E.M. Tablets, Tetracycline, or Potassium Permanganate. Medicated foods are also recommended. Columnaris can be highly infectious and may quickly kill all aquarium inhabitants; therefore, early treatment is essential. All fish, including those not yet showing visible symptoms, as well as the aquarium they inhabit should be treated.

 

[darkmerlin21]

Thanks for the information.. I don't have a separate tank in which to treat her so I'm still unsure as to how much meds to use given that the fry are also in the tank with her.

 

[tttnjfttt]

I would probably put the filter media you are cycling in your current tank, as the fish have already been exposed to the bacterial infection, and move the guppy into the other tank with some prime or other product that will neutralize ammonia.

 

[darkmerlin21]

I just spent a while watching her and I don't believe that there is anything on her mouth... I think I just had a weird angle of her last night because of where she was hiding. She was swimming around for a bit (as I just did a water change) and the only thing about her that looks bad is how thin she is... but, this would make sense since she has not been eating. All other fish in there look just fine, even the fry. I would think that if my water parameters were that bad it would show up in the fry first. She has now resumed laying on the bottom of the tank. I really don't want to use anything in there(meds) if I am not sure what her prob is and if it won't help anyway. I guess I will just keep a close eye on her and the others. My other tank is NOT ready for any fish. I have been running it for only a few days and although I added substrate from my cycled tank, squeezed the filter juice into it as well, it still has high ammonia readings. I will go out today again and see if I can find a nitrite and nitrate test. Wal-mart has been out for quite a while so maybe they will have them finally! Thanks again for your help.

 

[WILDER]

Ammonia and nitrite readings should be 0, if she not eating the fish is not well, plus laying on the bottom of the tank is a sign of a fish dying, plus if she has white around the mouth it's columnaris.
Also that 5gal is overstocked and desease is already setting in, the fry will die anyway with bad water quality, so at this moment in time there is not much to lose.

 

[darkmerlin21]

I am aware that my tank is overstocked, which is why I have another one that I had hoped to get up and running before the fry were born. Unfortunately, my guppy had other plans. I am very aware that she is not well, but as I stated earlier, I don't see any white around her mouth... she is thin and not eating and just laying on the bottom. The other fish are fine for now. What would you recommend I do? If I am not sure what is killing her, what meds should I use?

 

[tttnjfttt]

I would recomend you begin water changes to fix part of the cause. Any ammonia reading higher than zero means your fish are deailing with an unnecessary source of stress.

There are many fish illnesses out there and not all respond to the same treatment. That is why it is important to treat for the correct disease. Is the fish's spine bent at all? Does its bum look red and inflamed or have red strings hanging out of it?

 

[WILDER]

If she not eating, she has an infection of some kind, and livebearers are prone to alot, plus she beginning to sound to far gone to saved, sorry.

 

[darkmerlin21]

I am prepared to lose her... it's the other fish that are my concern now. Her spine is not bent and no inflamation. Do I just keep up the water changes or should I be doing more to help the other fish stay healthy?

 

[WILDER]

Carry on with the water changes, have you increased aeration as it bad for the corys at the bottom of a tank in an uncycled tank.

 

[darkmerlin21]

I have an airstone that I have had in the tank since day 1. It is on as high as it can be. Is this OK?

I will do the water changes then and I will go and get some test kits today(if I can find them this time).
Thank you for answering all my questions and concerns.

 

[darkmerlin21]

Guess what? The girl is still kicking around! There is good news... and bad news. She is swimming just fine and not laying on the bottom anymore, she has even been nibbling a teeny bit at feeding time. Bad news... I think she has Ich. White spots on her top fin and tail... Ich, right?

Here is my dilemna... lfs recommended Melafix. It treats alot... but not Ich. She has perked up since adding it but now she has the spots. I only added less than 1/2 the recommended dosage due to the fact that I was unable to confirm what she had and because of the fry. Now, can I still add the Quickcure? Should I do another partial water change?

BTW.. I tested my tap water last night with the ammonia kit. I have 1.0 ppm of ammonia in my tap water. Could explain why I still get readings of 0.25-0.50ppm of ammonia even after a PWC..

 

[tttnjfttt]

Since you have ammonia in your tap water, you should look for a dechlorinator that neutralizes ammonia. I use prime, and it seems to work really well. Since your ammonia reading is less than what is in your tap water, stop daily water changes.

As for the dilema of treating ich or the bacterial. I would begin treatment with an ich med. Without knowing where you are from or if there are any plants or invertibrets it is very difficult to recomend a treatment. Normally, people increase the temperature when treating for ich, however, i would be hesitant to do so until you are sure any bacterial infections are gone. I would wait a few more days atleast before considering raising the temp. This will mean you may be treating longer for ich. Also, as was said before, make sure you have an air stone. Having two meds mixed in your tank will lower the oxygen even further.

 

[darkmerlin21]

Thanks for your quick response! The ammonia in my tap water was a shocker for me so I phoned a friend who has a fish tank and asked about his ammonia results. He uses the same test kit I do and he uses "Prime" as a dechlorinator. He still gets a small ammonia reading from the treated tap water so I am not sure if switching to that will help but I will have to look in the big city if and when we get a chance to go there.(I live in Canada, btw).

I guess I will treat for the Ich... should I use the full recommended dose even with the fry in the tank?
Thanks again.