Fancy Goldfish + Mountain Minnows + Dojo Loaches?

[greengoddess]

Hi,

I know I have been flooding this forum lately and I apologise. I just want to do as much research as possible before I buy any more fish.

I am shortly going to buy a rectangular 240 litre tank to house my two fancy goldfish. The goldfish are very young and are still quite small. I desperately want to introduce a few other different creatures to the tank. I know that it would be ideal if I were to stick with just goldfish but I would really love to vary the tank a little instead of just having goldfish.

After my own research, the best options I can find to populate my tank would be a shoal of White Cloud Mountain Minnows and also a pair of Dojo Loaches.

Is this feasible? I know that minnows can occasionally be eaten by large goldfish but I am hoping that by introducing them now when the goldfish are young would help prevent that. Also, the fancy goldfish are really slow swimmers.

Would a 240 litre tank be large enough for this combination of fish? I know I will need a powerful filter because goldfish are messy.

Also, can I leave the tank unheated? In my home, the ambient water temperature in a tank is around 20-21 celcius.

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to make sure that the fish will be comfortable and safe.

 

[Floyds mum]

The white clouds are sub-tropical fish which means they can live happily in a wide range of temp generally from 18 degrees to 26 ish so they would be ok but im not 100% if the goldfish would bully/eat them. Others im sure will offer their advice good luck.

 

[Honeythorn]

I'd say have around 8-12 minnows and forget the loaches completely.

Weatherloaches ( Dojo's ) need to be in bigger groups than 2 , and can easily reach a good 6 inches + That means a lot of waste from a reccomended size group of 4-6+ . And goldfish alone create a LOT of waste.

Your proposed tank is around 50 gallons which is just right for a pair of fancies when fully grown ( which is what you must always think of when buying a tank and fish ) , and with a good external filter ( the largest and best you can afford ) adding a group of 8-12 minnows should not cause any problems at all .

Since you say the goldfish are small, then adding the minnows should be absolutely fine. Small goldfish can't swallow a minnow, fancies in particular would be too slow to catch them, and golds brought up alongside smaller fish will be FAR less likely to see them as a snack.

 

[greengoddess]

I'd say have around 8-12 minnows and forget the loaches completely.

Weatherloaches ( Dojo's ) need to be in bigger groups than 2 , and can easily reach a good 6 inches + That means a lot of waste from a reccomended size group of 4-6+ . And goldfish alone create a LOT of waste.

Your proposed tank is around 50 gallons which is just right for a pair of fancies when fully grown ( which is what you must always think of when buying a tank and fish ) , and with a good external filter ( the largest and best you can afford ) adding a group of 8-12 minnows should not cause any problems at all .

Since you say the goldfish are small, then adding the minnows should be absolutely fine. Small goldfish can't swallow a minnow, fancies in particular would be too slow to catch them, and golds brought up alongside smaller fish will be FAR less likely to see them as a snack.

OK, that's great news about the minnows. Can you think of anything else at all that would happily live in the same tank? Are there any type of catfish or loaches (tank cleaners) that I could add to the tank? Also, will the mountain minnows bite the beautiful tails of my goldfish?

 

[Davo86]

Many Cory (peppered,bronze etc) and Garra species are subtropical and will be fine in that setup,

 

[kelly528]

Bristlenose pleco, mystery snails... Since fancies are good for tropical temperatures I suppose you could but some tropical fish but I feel that Goldies & tropicals together just looks horrid.

I have done a lot of research on tankmates and BN plecos, mystery snails and weather loaches are the only suitable tankmates I have found. As mentioned, with weather/dojo loaches plus goldies you are looking at an 80g tank at minimum, since both fish are social and prefer to live in groups of 3 or more.

I strongly suggest you purchase another goldfish to make your current guys feel more at home. A telescope, veiltail, ranchu or an oranda (you will learn to love the headgrowth) rarely surpass 8-10 inches and would make good tankmates. Orandas in particular are hailed as the 'personality-guys'. All this being said I'm not sure how big you can expect fantails to grow in a tank.

 

[greengoddess]

I strongly suggest you purchase another goldfish to make your current guys feel more at home. A telescope, veiltail, ranchu or an oranda (you will learn to love the headgrowth) rarely surpass 8-10 inches and would make good tankmates. Orandas in particular are hailed as the 'personality-guys'. All this being said I'm not sure how big you can expect fantails to grow in a tank.

Could I add an extra goldfish as well as the mountain minnows? Is a 240 litre tank large enough for that?
Will the minnows bite the tails of my goldfish?

 

[NinjaSmurf]

What kind of fancies do you have? If you do decided to get another goldfish it's suggested that you don't mix fancies that have dorsal fins with ones that don't, because the non-dorsal fish will not be able to compete for food with the ones that do.


Not sure about the minnows nipping, as I've never had them.

 

[Honeythorn]

With regards to tank cleaners, I'm afraid you've been duped by common myth there.

There is absolute NO fish that will clean your tank for you. There is no fish that eats the faeces or waste of other fish in a bid to keep things clean, and there are not many commonly available coldwater species that feed on algae ( which I presume is what you want when you say clean, as in clean the glass? ) , which you should not get anyway so long as your light isn't OTT and you don't overfeed .

The only thing that will clean your substrate and glass is YOU. There is no magic fish or product that will conveniently and quickly clean the tank for you.

You will need to do weekly , possibly even twice weekly water changes depending on how good your filtration is, goldfish make a huge amount of waste and I very strongly advise you do NOT get an extra goldfish , the last thing you need is even more waste.

When you do your water changes you can clean the gravel at the same time. Using a gravel vac will do this , and unless ( if in the UK ) you modify your gravel vac and fit an extremely long hose on it to reach your sink/drain so the water can pour straight down the plughole ( Rather like the US python types ) then you are going to need a couple of buckets to collect the waste water, which you will have to carry away and either pour down the sink/toilet/drain ect, or even better, on the garden if you have one.

Remember you'll have to do that every single weekto keep your waste levels down even in a cycled tank.


Cleaning the glass is as easy as getting either a big magnetic glass cleaner of the sort commonly sold for fishtanks, or reaching in with a plastic scrubbing pad ( new, and no detergents inpregnated in it, just a plain one ) and cleaning the glass by hand.

But the best way to reduce glass cleaning time is to make sure you do not overfeed, and to have the lights on for a specific amount of hours per day. 10 is usually fine. This will help to keep algae growth down.

As for tankmates, Just stick with the minnows, they should be just fine and generally are very peaceful active fish.

I would say this - I know your fish are your childrens, and you want them to have an exciting tank, but cramming it with as many different types of fish as possible is one of the biggest mistakes you can ever make.

Because your goldfish make so much waste, you don't want to be adding a load of other fish, making even more waste, and therefore making keeping the tank clean and the water stable, even harder for you, ( you did say you were busy I believe and wanted something easy to take care of yes? (in which case goldfish were one of the worst choices imaginable but you have them now ) and it will take a lot longer to maintain each week than if you stick to one or two species.

A beautiful and exciting tank does not need to be rammed with loads of different fish to be interesting.

 

[greengoddess]

What kind of fancies do you have? If you do decided to get another goldfish it's suggested that you don't mix fancies that have dorsal fins with ones that don't, because the non-dorsal fish will not be able to compete for food with the ones that do.


Not sure about the minnows nipping, as I've never had them.

Both my fish are fantails and they both have dorsal fins. Thanks for that information, I didn't know that.

 

[kelly528]

What kind of fancies do you have? If you do decided to get another goldfish it's suggested that you don't mix fancies that have dorsal fins with ones that don't, because the non-dorsal fish will not be able to compete for food with the ones that do.


Not sure about the minnows nipping, as I've never had them.

Both my fish are fantails and they both have dorsal fins. Thanks for that information, I didn't know that.

Ranchus and lionheads should keep up with most fancies, but celestials and bubble-eyes definitely need their own tank.

+1 for Honeythorn. Since most 'cleaners' constantly eat, inherently they constantly poop as well. Just a rule of nature. Scavengers are good for turning algae and detritus into something that can be utilised by your plants but yep, in the end your tank will not be the cleaner for adding them.

Bear in mind that goldfish are also quite intelligent fish (don't laugh lol) and at least with mine I find she makes more of a 'pet' as opposed to my other fish, whose appeal lies solely in their beauty and the fufilment of fishkeeping. Given that you are giving them adequate housing and keep on top of water changes, your fantails could easily be part of the family until your kids go to college.

In short, I think many fish can only be appreciated as part of a community display but Goldies are great on their own.

Why the heck can't you have pythons in the UK?! Do they not fit to your taps? That's ridiculous. I strongly suggest you do a search for DIY python. They are not hard to make with a few parts form a hardwae store and will save you a LOT of grief.

 

[Honeythorn]

As far as I know they simply do not sell them here. I've certainly never seen any. They probably don't fit our taps actually. I wouldn't be surprised.

Personally I don't mind lugging buckets of water. It's a good workout.

 

[kelly528]

As far as I know they simply do not sell them here. I've certainly never seen any. They probably don't fit our taps actually. I wouldn't be surprised.

Personally I don't mind lugging buckets of water. It's a good workout.

I don't at the moment, but with a 50g Goldie tank coming in 2 weeks I'm sure I will soon enough :laff:

 

[greengoddess]

Why the heck can't you have pythons in the UK?! Do they not fit to your taps? That's ridiculous. I strongly suggest you do a search for DIY python. They are not hard to make with a few parts form a hardwae store and will save you a LOT of grief.

Aside from a snake, what on earth is a python? Sounds interesting and I don't mind a bit of DIY.

Good point about the 'cleaners' constantly eating and pooping. I didn't think of that. Sounds like it could just be mountain minnows and goldfish for my tank then. As long as they'll all live happily together. I just don't want the minnows to bite the tails of my goldfish. If anyone on here with experience of mountain minnows can advise on that I would be very grateful.

 

[kelly528]

Why the heck can't you have pythons in the UK?! Do they not fit to your taps? That's ridiculous. I strongly suggest you do a search for DIY python. They are not hard to make with a few parts form a hardwae store and will save you a LOT of grief.

Aside from a snake, what on earth is a python? Sounds interesting and I don't mind a bit of DIY.

Good point about the 'cleaners' constantly eating and pooping. I didn't think of that. Sounds like it could just be mountain minnows and goldfish for my tank then. As long as they'll all live happily together. I just don't want the minnows to bite the tails of my goldfish. If anyone on here with experience of mountain minnows can advise on that I would be very grateful.

Google Python aquarium cleaner. It's a gravel vacuum you hook up to your sink so you can drain and fill your tank without having to buckets back and forth. Some people make their own because they are quite expensive for what they are and all you really need is an ordinary gravel vaccuum and some piping parts. You can search youtube videos to see how they work.


Shoaling fish shouldn't be much of a bother as long as you keep them in a group of 6 or more. Any less and they panic and try to 'blend in' with fish of different species, nippingand chasing them all around the tank in an effort to get them to engage.