Fancy A New Tank With A Challenge

black molly3 · Apr 25, 2010

i have kept coldwater, tropical and marine fishes before but now only currently have a bowl with a telescopic fantail called nigel and a blackmoore called frankie. i work in a LFS and decided i would like to start a tropical tank but with a mission. to breed discus. now my questions. finding a pair. how do i distinguish male from female. substrate. which is best? plants yes or no. vertical surfaces obviously. caves? tank size etc. any hints or tips would be great and if you breed discus yourself why not throw a couple of pictures on. thanks
black molly3

NinjaSmurf · Apr 25, 2010

Why are your goldfish in a bowl?

ellena · Apr 26, 2010

I was going to ask the exact same thing ninja. If you think a bowl is a suitable home for goldfish, you might struggle with discus.

black molly3 · Apr 26, 2010

its a biorb. any relevant replies

NinjaSmurf · Apr 26, 2010

black molly3 said:
its a biorb. any relevant replies

Actually I'd say it is pretty relevant. As far as I can find, the largest sized biorb is only 16 gallons. You say you want a challenge but it seems you can't/won't be bothered to keep the fish you have in an adequately sized tank. Unless this is just a temp and/or grow out thing, which I'm going to guess it's not, considering how you'd rather dismiss the question than state that it is a temp situation.

To me at least, this the equivalant of someone saying they want to breed a high priced breed of dog, but mention they have two cheap mutts that will grow very large in a permanent pen out back, and anyone who asks about them will be ignored.

I'm not sure you will get a whole lot of help with anything seeing as (as far as we can see) you can't be bothered with what you have. If you can't be bothered to properly house two fancy goldfish, how do you expect to keep and breed higher maintenance fish such as discus?

Surely you can see why this is something we asked about first?

black molly3 · Apr 27, 2010

o get over yourself have you heard yourself. 16 Gallons for two small fancy goldfish is perfectly fine. they are well looked after fed well and realy healthy i dont see the problem. see the thing is you go by "the book" and honestly all these rules they are aload of poop. if your fish are happy, the tank is well looked after and you have healthy fish there is no problem. i have kept fish for years and to be honest i havent went by any rules and havnt had any problems. whats the point of having a massive tank just for two goldfish. theres no point you want to make it as nice as possable and as full as possable. regular water changes help keep parameters down. the fish can swim around so its ok. the more the merrier. take a chill pill. go out and buy a couple more fish for your tank or is it "too full". enjoy the hobby a bit more instead of keeping strikt to 1 inch of fish to the gallon

just my opinion.
now can anyone please answer the questions i havent been on here for months i come back and this is the welcome i get. well its nice to be welcomed back

rdp50734 · Apr 27, 2010

I have seen a few breeding set ups usually they are bare bottom without plants or decor and have breeding cones! Sexing is difficult but has something to do with an imaginary line from the top and bottom fins crossing through the tail(female) or missing the tail (male) My advise is to purchase a breeding pair (proven) as many are sold as breeding but they are egg eaters!

http

/cgi.ebay.co.uk/DISCUS-BREEDING-PAIR-RED-SPOTTED-LEOPARD-SILVER-PIGEO-/180498281952?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item2a068935e0#ht_555wt_958

Tank size is 10 gallons per discus but as you say its up to you! I have 7 but they are 3" each now!

mattlee · Apr 27, 2010

discus are similar to angels to sex, difficult. people go by the shape of the dorsal fins but its never 100% until they spawn.... as above breeder tanks are nothing pretty bare bottom and a cone. the bare bottom is for hygiene reasons as they will need feeding several times per day and any uneaten food can spoil the water fast at 30oC so it will need removing after about an hour or so. breeders also try and keep nitrates down below 10ppm as the fish prefer it and without plants etc the only way of doing this is plenty of water changes.

im not a breeder and pretty new to discus myself so im sure others can help more or even correct any mistakes :blush:

(i do also agree with the others that a biorb is no place for 1 let alone 2 goldfish, they are big waste producers and apart from the small tank size im not sure the filter would cope too well....)

Jonty · Apr 29, 2010

black molly3 said:
o get over yourself have you heard yourself. 16 Gallons for two small fancy goldfish is perfectly fine. they are well looked after fed well and realy healthy i dont see the problem. see the thing is you go by "the book" and honestly all these rules they are aload of poop. if your fish are happy, the tank is well looked after and you have healthy fish there is no problem. i have kept fish for years and to be honest i havent went by any rules and havnt had any problems. whats the point of having a massive tank just for two goldfish. theres no point you want to make it as nice as possable and as full as possable. regular water changes help keep parameters down. the fish can swim around so its ok. the more the merrier. take a chill pill. go out and buy a couple more fish for your tank or is it "too full". enjoy the hobby a bit more instead of keeping strikt to 1 inch of fish to the gallon
just my opinion.
now can anyone please answer the questions i havent been on here for months i come back and this is the welcome i get. well its nice to be welcomed back

Yes, you're right, those goldfish will be fine. In fact, your probably understocked - how about adding a common plec?

meguro · Apr 29, 2010

go for an arowana and a tiger shovelnose catfish

MBOU · Apr 29, 2010

I dunno, Red Tail cat would go better with goldfish in my opinion

I wouldnt even bother trying to explain how to go about setting up for discus because:

a/ they work in a fish shop
b/ they dont care about what you have to say
c/ they have been keeping LOADS of different fish for years

Come on guys, they know more than all of us put together! I think we should be sitting back and listening to all their amazing 'knowledge'.

VaegaVic · Apr 29, 2010

black molly3 said:
o get over yourself have you heard yourself. 16 Gallons for two small fancy goldfish is perfectly fine. they are well looked after fed well and realy healthy i dont see the problem. see the thing is you go by "the book" and honestly all these rules they are aload of poop. if your fish are happy, the tank is well looked after and you have healthy fish there is no problem. i have kept fish for years and to be honest i havent went by any rules and havnt had any problems. whats the point of having a massive tank just for two goldfish. theres no point you want to make it as nice as possable and as full as possable. regular water changes help keep parameters down. the fish can swim around so its ok. the more the merrier. take a chill pill. go out and buy a couple more fish for your tank or is it "too full". enjoy the hobby a bit more instead of keeping strikt to 1 inch of fish to the gallon
just my opinion.
now can anyone please answer the questions i havent been on here for months i come back and this is the welcome i get. well its nice to be welcomed back

That actually makes me feel physically sick.
You give advice to people about fish?
I'd like to de-construct that post if I may.

"16 Gallons for two small fancy goldfish is perfectly fine"
So 2 fish that can grow to 20cm each will be fine in a 60L? The sheer size of them is my main worry, considering that your tank is only (I think, don't quote me on this), a max of 60cm across. That leaves only 20cm of space to swim in, and that's just in a pure rectangle, your tank is even worse as they have even less space to swim in, all for the idea of style.

" they are well looked after fed well and realy healthy i dont see the problem. see the thing is you go by "the book" and honestly all these rules they are aload of poop. if your fish are happy, the tank is well looked after and you have healthy fish there is no problem. i have kept fish for years and to be honest i havent went by any rules and havnt had any problems. "
Completely agree with you here, generally the best rules are ones you make yourself, but not when you start sacrificing the animals wellbeing for your own. The fish must always come first, not your bank balance.

"whats the point of having a massive tank just for two goldfish. theres no point you want to make it as nice as possable and as full as possable."
Because they are fish that grow to large sizes and therefore must have large tanks. As I said earlier, yes, you want to make a tank as lovely as possible, but at the same time, give the fish the best conditions, not cramp them up.
You could live in a wardrobe all you life providing you had food, water and a toilet, doesn't mean you would want to.

"regular water changes help keep parameters down. the fish can swim around so its ok. the more the merrier. take a chill pill. go out and buy a couple more fish for your tank or is it "too full". enjoy the hobby a bit more instead of keeping strikt to 1 inch of fish to the gallon

just my opinion.
now can anyone please answer the questions i havent been on here for months i come back and this is the welcome i get. well its nice to be welcomed back."
Well at least you're maintaining the tank correctly, as for the rest of that statement, I'll just simply say one thing.
Leave, we are better off without people like you.

dave_oddballs · Apr 29, 2010

well this is just stupid isn't it? why can't you just answer the question asked? no amount of, 'your doing it wrong' 'your overstocked' 'you dont care about your fish' is going to help anyone really is it, and making childish comments like red tailed catfish etc is never going to get anyone anywhere is it.
he wanted answers about discus, and obviously 90% of you don't know anything about them, so therefore shouldn't of taken it further then just reading the post.
it is definitely not the worst case i have seen of neglect! i think the majority of these comments should be aimed more at people that keep fish is vase's, buckets, tubs etc.

absolute stupidity.

as mentioned by the couple of sensible people, discus are mainly bred in bare bottom 'cube' type tanks with sponge type filters so as not to produce too much flow, and a single breeding cone, normally in the middle.
i can't help but feel sorry for the fish kept in simple boring tanks like this though, it would be enough to drive a fish mental! no life, may aswel be in a box.
i would set up a 4 foot tank, about 15" wide and 18" high, set up with fine sand, plenty of long plants and root style wood for them to breed on. other inhabitants who can cope with the 30 celsius temperature are rams and cardinal tetras, though rams may eat eggs, im not sure. but cardinals are commonly kept with discus and make a stunning display.
if you want them to breed you will need very good filtration, and keep to a strict cleaning regime, including gravel vacs and big water changes.

good luck

MBOU · Apr 29, 2010

Not to mention plecs, corys and cardinals will all eat discus eggs...

Though that said, my discus would eat cardinals without batting an (imaginary) eyelid...