Everytime I Buy Feeder Rosy Reds Or Goldfish This Happens With Them&#3

[1411939]

i put them in the 10 gallon quarintine tank which also holds 4 blackskirt tetras, ive been getting these feeders usually 15 per time i buy them, then when i put them in there after a few hours one of them starts going all SKINNY AND THIN, and starts floating or sinking or either gets stuck to the filter tube, and then it repeats to the other feeder fish BUT it never touches the blackskirt tetras, i have experienced this many times now like 8, its all the time i buy the feeders one starts going all skinny all of a sudden, dies then the other and so on, but only a few of the feeders survive. the water stats are nitrite: below 5, nitrates below 40ppm, and the pH is alright, and feeder fish are hardy fish, any ideas?? when i mean skinny i mean like only their heads have flesh, then the body is very thin and looks odd, and the eyes seem to stick in since its so skinny, they even start having trouble to stay on balance

could it be shock?? no fish i have bought experienced this, and when i take a look at the feeders in the bag every1 is swimming correctly, and when i look at their tanks the feeder fish look healthy and swim and only a 5% ratio is dead, while in my tank 80% of them inmedeatly die after a few days

 

[LauraFrog]

Nitrites under 5? A nitrite reading over 0.25 is an immediate cause for concern, sounds like the tank isn't cycled.

Feeders AREN'T hardy fish. They're mass produced by the thousands, raised in cramped and disease-infested conditions, feed poor quality foods and generally treated very badly.

Sounds like the problem MIGHT be fish TB, which thrives in the above mentioned conditions, and can come on fairly suddenly when fish are stressed (ie the move.) TB infects orally which means that when other fish eat a fish that's died of TB, they get it. Usually this means that it's spread when a fish dies of TB in the tank and the other fish nip at the body but I certainly wouldn't be risking an expensive predator by using feeders that are dying of suspect TB. Might be a good idea to look into frozen food or an alternative source of feeders. If you really must use live fish, it's best to breed them yourself.

 

[1411939]

Nitrites under 5? A nitrite reading over 0.25 is an immediate cause for concern, sounds like the tank isn't cycled.

Feeders AREN'T hardy fish. They're mass produced by the thousands, raised in cramped and disease-infested conditions, feed poor quality foods and generally treated very badly.

Sounds like the problem MIGHT be fish TB, which thrives in the above mentioned conditions, and can come on fairly suddenly when fish are stressed (ie the move.) TB infects orally which means that when other fish eat a fish that's died of TB, they get it. Usually this means that it's spread when a fish dies of TB in the tank and the other fish nip at the body but I certainly wouldn't be risking an expensive predator by using feeders that are dying of suspect TB. Might be a good idea to look into frozen food or an alternative source of feeders. If you really must use live fish, it's best to breed them yourself.

the tank is cycled it has a 20 gallon filter in it, the filter is like 6 months old established, and the water stats are fine i made a mistake while typing i get confused between the nitrites and nitrates, anyways, i do feed the feeders that seem to not have it(swim, eat, fight the net, etc.) and also is there a reason why some fish turn black? and my bichir ate like 3 fishes that did have the TB they were almost dead, skinny and stuff this was like months ago and he didn't get the TB, iguess it gets killed inside their belly? the feeders are not for the bichir though is for the needlefish, thats ALL he eats,

 

[Rediahs]

If you get confused between nitrites and nitrates, why did you say nitrates are at 40?

You aren't testing for ammonia?

 

[LauraFrog]

If you say the tank's cycled I'll take your word for it, TB can be brought on by the stress of the move, it would be even more likely to appear that suddenly if nitrogenous waste was a stressor as well but it's still possible that the stress of the move is enough to make the symptoms appear.

Fish with TB can carry the disease with no symptoms for months. This is one of the reasons why it's such an awful disease (you often can't pick it up when you're buying the fish), the other being that it's totally incurable and nothing we have can get rid of it, even antibiotics don't work. TB is one of the main arguments against live feeders because the sort of conditions in which feeders are raised are very, very conductive to its spread. So even if only some of the feeders are showing obvious symptoms and dying when you bring them home it's quite possible the others are carrying it. If you've got fish that will only accept live fish as food it's really a good idea to use guppies and try to breed enough yourself, because that way you know what they've been eating and that they've had enough food.

TB is one of the least known common diseases. So we're not absolutely sure about all the ways it spreads. It doesn't seem to be spread thorugh the water, you can have one fish with TB in a tank and as long as the body is removed immediately when it dies, never have it spread. It's not the sort of disease that will appear and wipe out a tank usually. But it does seem to be oral, so honestly I would be looking at getting feeders somewhere else or raising them. Personally I wouldn't want to take the risk.

TB symptoms:
Loss of weight/emaciation
Sores or lesions on the body or fins (occasionally)
Loss of colour and lethargy; bumps into objects, gets sucked into filter, sits on the bottom or floats motionless at the top
Gasping or laboured breathing, often with normal gill appearance
Curvature of the spine, hollow bellied appearance (often develops a hunched back)
Becomes extremely prone to other diseases in the later stages
Often refuses to eat once obvious symptoms become apparent.

 

[nmonks]

It's actually pretty unlikely to be Fish TB; despite widely being discussed, there's little evidence it's common among ornamental fish. That said, there are other mycobacteria that produce similar symptoms, and indeed a wide range of other parasites can cause wasting and death. I edited an article by a microbiologist for the last issue of Conscientious Aquarist that explains all this in more depth if you want to read the science. There's an appendix all about Fish TB at the end.

Feeder-grade goldfish and rosy red minnows are actually very robust, very adaptable fish. The reason you're getting sickly ones is that they're held under squalid conditions. Knowing that they're "disease bombs", can you imagine how stupid it is to use them to feed predatory fish?

Cheers, Neale

 

[1411939]

It's actually pretty unlikely to be Fish TB; despite widely being discussed, there's little evidence it's common among ornamental fish. That said, there are other mycobacteria that produce similar symptoms, and indeed a wide range of other parasites can cause wasting and death. I edited an article by a microbiologist for the last issue of Conscientious Aquarist that explains all this in more depth if you want to read the science. There's an appendix all about Fish TB at the end.

Feeder-grade goldfish and rosy red minnows are actually very robust, very adaptable fish. The reason you're getting sickly ones is that they're held under squalid conditions. Knowing that they're "disease bombs", can you imagine how stupid it is to use them to feed predatory fish?

Cheers, Neale

ok then how can i breed guppys? when i read it up, it seems too difficult, confusing so i give up... btw my needlefish wont eat anything but the small live fishes, its not like im trying to feed an oscar that will take anything

 

[nmonks]

The natural food of Xenentodon cancila in the wild are aquatic crustaceans. The idea they only eat fish is a total myth. Live river shrimps are widely sold (in the UK at least) and readily accepted. Once settled in, needlefish can be trained to take all kinds of things, both live (e.g., crickets) and dead (e.g., frozen lancefish). CFC and others have written here about how they trained their specimens to take frozen foods, so a few minutes with the search function will probably provide all the help you need.

Cheers, Neale