Emergent planted tanks and Nitrates

WhistlingBadger

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So, I hear that terrestrial plants remove nitrates (rather than just ammonia and ammonium) from the water. Is the same true of floating/emergent plants, or do they also prefer ammonia? Just curious. If my nitrates ever get high again, as they might when all these fishies grow up, I'm thinking about adding some water hyacinth.
 
I have a heart leaf philodendron (pathos variety) and a peace lily and my nitrates barely register. I think it’s something to do with having leaves in the open air but the scientific knowledge is beyond me.

I’m curious now though as to the definition of an emergent plant; surely the two plants I’ve mentioned are emergent? So I’d assume (and very happy to be corrected) that any floating plant that has roots in the water and leaves above the water would do the same. I know @Essjay recommends floating plants (red root floater is one).

Interested to hear from those with more experience/knowledge 🙂
 
I’ve been wanting to ask this question too recently as I think it’s an interesting area for the hobby to move into for me. I know some people have issues with pothos as the roots are poisonous - though some say not for fish. But interested to know what other options there are like peace lillys and I’ve seen some people do sweet potatoes too but I’d prefer something more decorative like the Lilly’s
 
I’ve been wanting to ask this question too recently as I think it’s an interesting area for the hobby to move into for me. I know some people have issues with pothos as the roots are poisonous - though some say not for fish. But interested to know what other options there are like peace lillys and I’ve seen some people do sweet potatoes too but I’d prefer something more decorative like the Lilly’s
I’ve had this debate with @Byron, my reading states that the acid is in the stems and leaves not the roots (but you need to take the cutting and let it heal for a couple of weeks before putting in the tank). I can’t find anything to say it’s dangerous..
 
I've been thinking about using some Syngonium (arrowhead) too. It is also toxic, but at least it's native to South America.
 
It’s been tempting to try it each time I garden and accidentally pull up root lol

i don’t have nitrates to play test tho lol please keep us updated 😂🙏🏻
 
i don’t have nitrates to play test tho lol please keep us updated 😂🙏🏻
I don't either at the moment. (this is for my 150g Rio Negro tank--link in sig) It was a problem in the last setup, partly because the water chemistry made big water changes difficult. This setup is a bit more lightly stocked and I've been doing huge WCs every weekend to keep the tannin staining under control, so negligible nitrates so far. If it changes, though, a bunch of terrestrial or emergent plants on the top would really go with the theme and tie the 'scape into the room.

I just wondered if it's really true that terrestrial plants eat nitrates.
 
Very nice slice of nature ❣️
idk how to view sig yet but I think I saw it in another thread last night. Very nice.
 
To the question asked by @WhistlingBadger in post #1, and referenced/mentioned in subsequent posts...there is a nutrient difference between all terrestrial plants and all aquatic plants that are grown submersed.

To clarify what the above means, terrestrial plants grow on land, with the roots in soil. Hydroponic cultivation, where the roots are in water but not the leaves, is the same thing for purposes of this discussion. These are still terrestrial plants. Terrestrial plants take up nitrate as their source of nitrogen. They do not, so far as I have ever been able to ascertain, take up ammonia/ammonium or nitrite.

Aquatic plants refers to plants that grow submerged, leaves and roots in water. Floating plants in an aquarium are aquatic plants, not terrestrial, and they take up nutrients through their leaves and roots. The vast majority of aquatic plants take up ammonia/ammonium as their source of nitrogen. They do not take up nitrates, unless forced to by an absence of ammonia/ammonium in balance with other nutrients and light. There is some evidence that aquatic plants would take up nitrite before nitrate, but studies are few and not all that conclusive.

If the aquarium water is high in nitrates because of high nitrate in the source water, aquatic plants are not going to help. Terrestrial plants with their roots in the aquarium water will take up nitrates. If the nitrate occurs from processes within the aquarium, aquatic plants can help control these by taking up more ammonia/ammonium than the nitrifying bacteria/archaea can, and this means significantly fewer nitrites and thus significantly fewer nitrates down the line.

There is another aspect to this. The majority of aquatic plants take up ammonia/ammonium via their leaves, not their roots. The following is Diana Walstad's explanation on this.

If aquatic plants preferred to get ammonium by root uptake from the substrate rather than leaf uptake from the water, their ability to remove ammonium from the water and protect our aquarium fish would be lessened. Fortunately for hobbyists, aquatic plants seem to prefer leaf uptake of ammonium as opposed to sediment uptake. Thus, in split-chamber experiments with marine eelgrass [12], when ammonium was added to the leaf/stem compartment, root uptake of ammonium was reduced by 77%. However, when ammonium was added to the root compartment, leaf uptake of ammonium was not reduced."​
Work with other aquatic plant species support the above findings. The seagrass Amphibolis antarctica takes up ammonium 5 to 38 faster by its leaves than its roots [13]. Myriophyllum spicatum planted in sediment containing adequate ammonium, grew fine without ammonium in the water. However, when investigators added ammonium to the water (0.1 mg/l N), plants took up more N from the water than the sediment [14].​
Several aquatic plants (Juncus bulbosus, Sphagnum flexuosum, Agrostis canina, and Drepanocladus fluitans) were found to take up 71 to 82% of the ammonium from the leaves; their roots took up only a minor amount [15].​
Hobbyists using fertilizer tablets for aquatic plants should understand the aquatic plant preference for leaf uptake of ammonium (as opposed to root uptake). In aquariums, fish-generated ammonium in the water can fulfill most N needs of plants. Moreover, any nitrogen added to substrates, such as in fertilizer tablets, can have bad and unintended consequences. For example, when I added nitrate-containing fertilizers to a fresh soil substrate, the fish became sick from nitrite toxicity. (Soil bacteria had converted the nitrates to toxic nitrites, which then entered the overlying water.​
 
Ah, I was hoping @Byron would show up. :) Thanks, that's what I thought. Haven't read Walstad's book for a while; need to again. It is also my understanding that aquatic algae mostly dines on nitrates, which can give them an advantage over vascular plants in certain situations. Is that correct as well? I remember that Rachel O'Leary once had a tank of desirable algae wiped out because she added pothos to the HOB filter.
 
Ah, I was hoping @Byron would show up. :) Thanks, that's what I thought. Haven't read Walstad's book for a while; need to again. It is also my understanding that aquatic algae mostly dines on nitrates, which can give them an advantage over vascular plants in certain situations. Is that correct as well? I remember that Rachel O'Leary once had a tank of desirable algae wiped out because she added pothos to the HOB filter.

There seems to be quite varying opinion when it comes to algae and nitrate. The first thing to recognize is that any algae, especially if it is the "problem" species, will only survive if there are excess nutrients, meaning, levels beyond what the plants use [with no live plants, obviously the algae is free to use all nutrients]. High nitrate can involve high organics which are the primary source of nutrients for plants. This is why algae is so prevalent in tanks with slow-growing plants like Anubias and Java Fern--the plants cannot utilize all the nutrients so algae has the advantage. Most of us undoubtedly "overstock" our tanks more than understock, even if the fish may be in no actual danger due to plants, water changes, etc. If nitrates increase in an aquarium from one water change to the next, that is a sign of trouble; nitrates should never increase like this if the tank is biologically balanced.

The incident in your last sentence may or may not have had anything to do with nitrates. It depends upon the specifics of the tank. Allelopathy involving algae and plants may be relevant.
 

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