Emergency In 4 Of My Tanks! Mysteries Too

[hogan53]

Yes I added dechlorinator.

What does Trypoasoma do?

And I'm not too worried about what the planaria will do to me, rather the cause of planaria being in the water in the first place. They don't bother me, but there must be an underlying problem with our water service providers.

when do youn add it?

 

[ArauraDiscus]

Dechlorinater is added by me after every water change. I went out and bought some Prime as was reccomended by Tolak if I'm remembering correctly. Since Prime is a Seachem product, I trust it will work well.

 

[-germ-]

Certainly will.....
Used to have the link in my sig, don't think they acutually know how it converts Nitrite, if i recall correctly, but it does work. Most LFS use it as a Dechlor (obviously aware of the other benefits) i've performed a few fish in cycles (bad ) with it, and with very sensitive fish; no deaths.
Gave up on recommending it due to 'no chemical additon' zealots....
One thing to bare in mind is that you may get very odd readings for ammonia, although we never encountered this after the tanks were properly cycled;
For more info follow this link (if you haven't been there already)---> http/www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime_faq.html

Anymore deaths?

 

[ArauraDiscus]

Certainly will.....
Used to have the link in my sig, don't think they acutually know how it converts Nitrite, if i recall correctly, but it does work. Most LFS use it as a Dechlor (obviously aware of the other benefits) i've performed a few fish in cycles (bad ) with it, and with very sensitive fish; no deaths.
Gave up on recommending it due to 'no chemical additon' zealots....
One thing to bare in mind is that you may get very odd readings for ammonia, although we never encountered this after the tanks were properly cycled;
For more info follow this link (if you haven't been there already)---> http/www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime_faq.html

Anymore deaths?

No thank God. It seems to have stopped, knock on wood.

I now have 2 rainbows left, 2 plecos, two CAE's, and one opaline gourami left in there. I've been medicating the tank with Marycide and Acroflavin. A dual medication yes, but desperate times call for desperate measures. Since I added the meds, the fish have perked up a bit dare I say. So I'm hoping it stays that way. Acroflavin was the first thing I added and the deaths stopped as soon as I added it. Maybe it was a nasty bacterial infection. Some new disease that came in through the water source possibly. Or possibly that Gas Bubble Disease caused by bacteria. Idk. I doubt I ever will know for sure what just happened.

 

[hogan53]

Dechlorinater is added by me after every water change. I went out and bought some Prime as was reccomended by Tolak if I'm remembering correctly. Since Prime is a Seachem product, I trust it will work well.

If after is what you are saying?



ALL WATER CONDITIONERS MUST BE ADDED TO TAP WATERS BEFORE REPLENISHING THE AQUARIUM NOT AFTER FILLING AS THIS CAN KILL YOUR BENEFICAL BACTERIA OR DEPLETE THEIR REMOVAL
ACTION OF NITRITE.

 

[ArauraDiscus]

I don't have filters running as I've said a couple times. The chlorine never touches the filter, which is where 98 percent of the beneficial bacteria in your tank is.

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

I'm glad to hear that your fish are doing better AD...definitely keep us updated on their progress.

 

[ArauraDiscus]

Thanks, I will keep y'all updated.

 

[Tolak]

Dechlorinater is added by me after every water change. I went out and bought some Prime as was reccomended by Tolak if I'm remembering correctly. Since Prime is a Seachem product, I trust it will work well.

If after is what you are saying?



ALL WATER CONDITIONERS MUST BE ADDED TO TAP WATERS BEFORE REPLENISHING THE AQUARIUM NOT AFTER FILLING AS THIS CAN KILL YOUR BENEFICAL BACTERIA OR DEPLETE THEIR REMOVAL
ACTION OF NITRITE.

This is not correct. I've added dechlor before, during, and well after water changes with no difference detected. This quote from Bignose may be of some interest to you as well;

Well, a quick perusal of the scientific literature came up with some rather surprising results.

Firstly, and most surprising to me, the problem ammonia oxidizing bacteria (AOB) and nitrite oxidizing bacteria (NOB) growing in water utilities' facilities is becoming a somewhat serious issue. The chloramine does in fact, promote the growth of AOB and NOB, with the consequences -- written is a nice non-threatening way as -- "...the addition of chloramines can lead to biological instability in a drinking water distribution system by promoting the growth of nitrifying bacteria..." and "The resulting reduction in chloramine residual and development of a microbial community in the distribution system lead to water quality deterioration and violation of drinking water regulations." I think that I might very well have put a little more emphasis on violations of the drinking water regulations.

Basically, because the AOB and NOB grow, they excrete other organic compounds allowing other bacteria to grow. At the very minimum, this additional bacteria will require more chloramine to kill it off, but then, more chloramine promotes more growth of AOB and NOB, and I think you can see where this cycle is going... Here is the really bad news, with this extra growth, all that stuff we don't want in there could grow now, like the coliform bacteria (E. coli -- think spinach), and viruses, and Guardia lamblia and so on. All of these are pretty strictly required to be below certain levels by the U.S. EPA, and similarly in other countries.

Secondly, the really interesting part is that in lab test after lab test, the recommended exposure times and concentrations of chloramines do their jobs. The chloramines in the lab kill off all the organics, including the AOB and NOB. However, at the utility side of the issue, nitrification episodes are rather commonplace. One recent study found 63% of U.S. chloramining utilities and 64% of Southern Australian utilities tested positive for nitrifying bacteria.

One hypothesis for the discrepancy between the laboratory studies and operating results is that there are AOB strains
growing in full-scale systems that possess a greater chloramine resistance than those studied in the kinetic experiments. Whether the AOB strains used in earlier kinetic studies are representative of significant strains involved in full-scale nitrification episodes has not been confirmed, since there are no published evaluations of AOB diversity in chloraminated distribution systems.

This quote, and the above ones, from Regan, Harrington, and Noguera: "Ammonia- and Nitrite-Oxidizing Bacterial Communities in a Pilot-Scale Chloraminated Drinking Water Distribution System" Applied and Enviromental Microbiology 2002. The study where the %'s came from was Wolfe et al. "Occurrence of nitrification in chloranimated distribution systems" Journal (American Water Works Association), 1996

In other words, the strains that are in the water utilities have become more resistant to chloramines, and can indeed use the ammonia present as sustenance.

And, back to fishtanks, where do the AOB and NOB come from in the first place? Well, if you used tap water, they probably came from your water utility, and if a resistant strain has grown there... that same chloramine resistant strain is probably now growing in your tank too. The Regan et al. study cited above and Regan et al. "Diversity of nitrifying bacteria in full-scale cloranimated distribution systems" Water Research, 2003, was among the first to use DNA sequencing to distinguish all the different AOB and NOB that are growing. Some of the names should be pretty familiar: AOBs Nitrosospira, Nm. oligotropha and NOBs Nitrospira, Nitrobacter

So, it seems that AOB and so on can become resistant, or at the very least, as mentioned in the above posts, the chloramine levels are certainly not designed to sterilize a colony of bacteria as large in number as we culture in our tanks and so chloraminated water probably is not going to ruin a fishtank.

All that said, I think I am still going to continue to use my conditioner. It is pretty cheap, and better safe than sorry. However, I am not going to fret if I forget, or if a water change is due up and I haven't been to the LFS lately to get a new bottle.

 

[hogan53]

Hello all
The point i am trying to make is that when you add tap water un-treated this will have a bearing on fish health. your filter doesnt need to be turned off, when you do a massive water change of 50% this must have a huge effect on your aquarium bio-system and your fish, i think this has a major effect more than a lot of fish keepers think in my opinion.

you may get away with adding conditioner after water changes doing 10% -25% but its not a good practice your fish will suffer if you do larger water changes more often.
Every couple of days.

Hogan53

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

DiscusLova; My dad can't help, he went into all the parasites and worms (or both) commonly transmitted via fish to humans that he knows of, all examples were related to the digestion of raw fish (Scandinavian countries, Japan). Nothing on planaria.
He also performed a search on a medical paper website, may have been something there, but there is apparently alot of work with planaria, involving studies into their similarities with vertebrate brains and nervous systems therefore their associatons with the human brain are often studied, therefore search results involving people and planaria were endless....

If you are truly worried about having ingested some, i'd definately see a Doctor, just for safeties sake.

Wow thanks. I doubt I need to see I doctor, I mean tons of people on the island have been drinking the water with what looks to be no problems. I mean, they could have come off the plants rather then in the water. I think i'll be fine

 

[Tolak]

Hello all
The point i am trying to make is that when you add tap water un-treated this will have a bearing on fish health. your filter doesnt need to be turned off, when you do a massive water change of 50% this must have a huge effect on your aquarium bio-system and your fish, i think this has a major effect more than a lot of fish keepers think in my opinion.

you may get away with adding conditioner after water changes doing 10% -25% but its not a good practice your fish will suffer if you do larger water changes more often.
Every couple of days.

Hogan53

Have you ever tried it? I have, quite some time ago.

20 gallon tanks, identical setups, pea to dime size angels growing out. 75% water changes, all my tanks get 50%+ weekly. One got treated with Prime, one got nothing. After watching on & off for a couple of hours for any signs of distress I got bored, added dechlor, and got on with other things that had to get done. That tank had no problem at all, angels grew out no differently in either tank, those fish got sold long ago, except for some breeders which came from one tank or another.


My opinion was the same as yours some time ago, until some research was brought to my attention. After looking into it, and finding some aquarists with results that confirm what the research had proven I gave it a try.

None the less, this is not something I would do on a regular basis. To actually confirm it you would have to grow out two batches identically, and keep them long term. I don't do that, I breed & sell fish, and wouldn't want to risk the quality of what I sell.