Ellioti Wasting Away... :( Advice Please!

[SouthernCross]

Hi guys,
 
I had a group of five ellioti, going well for about a year.
 
I recently had to go overseas for work for two months and my family were coming by my house every 2-3 days to feed my fish and my brother gave the tank a good clean after one month and then I did it straightaway when I got home. I usually do my tank every 2-3 weeks instead of every 4 though. I left explicit feeding instructions which I know they would have followed.
 
While I was gone my mum reported that one of the ellioti died. I got home and noticed some of them are extremely thin. Another died a few days later. So I have three left, one looks great, one looks terribly thin and the last one looks on his way to being thin too.
 
Whats happened? Is it just that these guys were too sensitive to only get food every three days for two months? (i usually fed them every day with one day off per week). My other theory is that I think I had five males all along - given that one still looks in great nick, have they slowly just been bullying the weakest fish in the group until they've died?
 
I'm nt concerned about the water quality - my rainbow cichlids just spawned in there this week, I've got fry and all the other fish look great. Parasites did cross my mind but no new fish had been added and they'd been doing well up until now.
 
When I feed them I notice the skinny fish aren't even showing any interest in the food Just hovering around listlessly.
 
Is there anything I can do or is it a lost cause? I have been doing a few extra water changes and trying to tempt them with frozen bloodworms and brine shrimp too but to no avail.
 
I have added five more little juveniles today(thought it might help spread aggression and to replace the ones I've lost). Is there anything else I can do for these guys? They are my favourites, I don't want to lose any more.
 
Thanks in advance for your advice!

 

[star4]

I would treat the whole tank for worms as a precaution, also try soaking the food in a little (couple of drops) of garlic juice, or if you can get it some Vitazin made by waterlife. It would be very unlikely for a single fish to make the other 4 starve themselves to death even if they were all males

 

[SouthernCross]

Should I remove the fish that look ill and put them down? Concerned that if they die and the other fish try to eat them before I can get them out...

 

[star4]

That is up to you, if you dont want to treat them then euthanise them to stop them suffering.

 

[SouthernCross]

I don't know what's going on. I put down two ellioti who were on their last legs. Leaving me one that looks 100%, and another who looks a bit off and thin.

Tonight I look in and I have a dead clown loach and a dead platy who had no signs of illness. All I can think is they might have gotten too close to my rainbows who were defending their fry and perhaps the two are completely unrelated on the sick ellioti. I don't know. The fry are all gone now tho so the rainbows aren't on defence mode anymore.

This was the fattest most robust clown loach you've ever seen. I just don't understand it. I just did all my water levels, ammonia was 0, nitrite 0 and nitrate about 40. Ph 6.8-7.

I'm going to go get a parasite med tomorrow cos I don't know what else to do. I did a big water change after I put down the two ellioti. Any particular recommendations for a med?

 

[star4]

Can you get Esha products in Australia? if so I would go with a combo of Esha Gdex and esha 2000, the gdex for any parasites and the 2000 to kill off any bacterial problems/ Esha is safe to use with clown loach.

 

[SouthernCross]

I don't think so unfortunately. Can't say I've seen it in my LFS...

 

[SouthernCross]

What's the most important active ingredient that I should look for?

 

[SouthernCross]

Ok just got home and my last ill appearing fish has died. I got some
Medicine - fluke and tapeworm tablets (praziquantel) and some'para-cide' containing trichlorfon. I don't know whether I should use it or not, or see if any other fish appear to go thin first. I am often in the camp that sometimes meds can do more harm than good and since there's no more fish who appear unwell I don't know whether to use these or not.

Thoughts??

 

[star4]

I am of the same opinion with meds, I only use if absolutely necessary. However in your case with loosing an apparently fit and healthy clown loach on the outside I would be treating for something internal/bacterial.

 

[SouthernCross]

Lost three sterbai cories. I'm so frustrated. Going to go ahead with the praziquantel med.

 

[star4]

No marks or anything on the corys either? are they dying overnight? I think going down the route of a large wc and clean up then a course of meds, unless you can do a post mortem on one of the dead fish to see if it is an internal parasite - difficult if you dont know what you are doing.

 

[SouthernCross]

Nope, bit of redness on the bellies but that could have just been post mortem haemorrhage. I've gotten home today and my huge black angel who I've had for years is also dead. I'm gutted.

I have been doing some big water changes I've done two of nearly 50% in the past week. Whatever killed my Elliott's killed them slowly (they went thin over many weeks) whereas whatever is killing my clown loach, three sterbais, one platt and now my angel has struck me quickly and they had no physical signs and were well up until 24 hrs before their death. I noticed them lying on heir sides then hours later the cories were dead. With the angel he didn't want to eat last night (but was fine the day before) and now he is dead.

I am completely stumped and don't know what to do. I dosed the praziquantel last night and will repeat in 10 days as per instructions.

I don't know what else to do.

 

[star4]

Just running through some idea's so please dont be offended.
 
Do you have sand substrate? have you raked it through recently - moving all decor in case of any gas pockets.
If gravel, have you done a complete gravel vac - moving all decor in case of gas pockets.
Has any chemicals been used near the tank (cleaning products etc)
When did you last clean your filter? 
Being in Austrailia, what is your tank temperature - check surface agitation/air
Have you added any new decor recently - if so remove it
Have you any old decor, check for any flaking paint, rotten wood etc. I have had some fake plants with bases that degrade quickly
Is all your food in date? could there be contamination in the food?
Have the rainbows fully calmed down? have you seen them chasing other fish? (Knowing cichlids though you would see ripped fins)
How old is your heater? is there any damage to it which could be causing electrical current going into the tank? 
Check the hood of your tank for any odd fungus, slime mould etc and clean it all
 
I think you have a double problem here, the Elliotti wasting = parasitic, but these other sudden deaths sound more like environmental particularly with loosing bottom dwellers first.

 

[SouthernCross]

Just running through some idea's so please dont be offended.
 
Do you have sand substrate? have you raked it through recently - moving all decor in case of any gas pockets.
If gravel, have you done a complete gravel vac - moving all decor in case of gas pockets.
Has any chemicals been used near the tank (cleaning products etc)
When did you last clean your filter? 
Being in Austrailia, what is your tank temperature - check surface agitation/air
Have you added any new decor recently - if so remove it
Have you any old decor, check for any flaking paint, rotten wood etc. I have had some fake plants with bases that degrade quickly
Is all your food in date? could there be contamination in the food?
Have the rainbows fully calmed down? have you seen them chasing other fish? (Knowing cichlids though you would see ripped fins)
How old is your heater? is there any damage to it which could be causing electrical current going into the tank? 
Check the hood of your tank for any odd fungus, slime mould etc and clean it all
 
I think you have a double problem here, the Elliotti wasting = parasitic, but these other sudden deaths sound more like environmental particularly with loosing bottom dwellers first.

Sorry for the delay - I had to do a lot of overtime at work and haven't been able to get back on.

I have sand - is well turned over. And rocks moved at water changes.

I cleaned my filter this week, 3 weeks before that and my brother a month before that when I was away.

Tank temp is 29, my airstome is turned up full, has been since it started getting hot here.

Rainbows have settled as all the fry disappeared.

Checked food all on date. Most of it I bought new before I went overseas in September.

Got a jaeger heater, 18 maths old I would say, seems to be fine.

Hood is clear of muck.

I haven't done any cleaning with chemicals or sprayed fly spray or anything.

Will after I lost my angel two days ago I haven't lost any more since... In was having deaths everyday up until now so I'm hoping that's a sign things are on the mend. Thought my 2nd angel looked a bit listless but I think he's just missing his buddy.

I'm going to redoes with the med I used in ten days as per instructions. Continue with water changed every 2-3 days and I have also been adding Melafix. Will continue to keep an eye on them all... Hopefully I won't have any more deaths. I don't think I've ever lost so many fish in such a short time frame in my life


No chemicals -