Dwarf/powder Blue Gourami Dead

[sheree]

Hi,

I've suddenly lost one of my blue gourami's. All water conditions ammonia etc are normal in my mature 45 gal tank. I bought the fish for about 3-4 weeks ago with 3 other females to accompany my 2 males who were starting to get territorial, and even though this fish was alittle shy, the tank seemed to be a very happy community. I do regular 20%ish water changes on a weekly basis and yesterday i did my monthly 50% clean etc. After inspecting the body it seemed to have little brown marks on it, the only way i can describe it is like burn marks?? I know powder blue's are prone to disease/infection and high breeding and i was wondering if this was the problem with my fish??

 

[WILDER]

Was the brownish mark dusty or fluffy looking.

 

[sheree]

Neither really more like a scar - defintely not fluffy.

 

[WILDER]

I would love a blue gourami, did the fish bloat up or lay to one side on the bottom of the tank, can be prone to bacterial infections, if the mark look brown also it could of been the beginning of an ulcer.

 

[sylvia]

I would go for the 'beginnings of an ulcer' theory. BTW, you do mean a (powder) blue DWARF gourami right? Not a 'blue' three-spot...? Like you stated yourself, dwarf gouramies are extremely susceptible to disease - particularly internal bacterial infections. It is very risky to simply throw them in a mature tank without quarantining first and you should now keep a very close eye on the rest to make sure you don't end up with an epidemic that kills all your gouramies off. At the first sign of disease, isolate the fish and treat it with an antibiotic. If you don't catch them on time, at least remove the dead fish' body immediately to help prevent the spread of disease. Good luck with your remianing fish and sorry for your loss

 

[Miss Dib Dabs]

Sorry for your loss. My BB isn't well at the mo either. Looks like too much spawning activity and getting overzealous. He's got a small sign of ulceration on one side and a touch of fungus elsewhere. Poor fella.
I've treated with Interpets anti-fungal med today but I'd like to give him some anti-internal med too. How long should I wait?
Hugs,
P.

 

[WILDER]

If you can issolate the fish to a hospital tank, you could add half of the bacteria med now, but you will have to increase aeration with an airstone.

 

[sylvia]

Are you sure he has an ulcer Miss Dib Dabs (or the beginnings of one)? If so, treating that should take priority.

'Fungus' infections aren't normaly life-threatening as long as they aren't a particularly aggressive strain. As you probably know already, the infection's not fungal, but bacterial. Actual fungus will appear as a secondary infection, typicaly attacking already dead tissues.

Anyway, the anti-internal meds commonly available will also treat aeromonas sp. and flexibacter columnaris (the usual causes of finrot and external bacterial infections) to at least some extent. Couple this with very clean water, a stress-free environment and a temperature that does not exceed 75 deg F and the fish should not require the finrot med - at least not for the time being - while you tackle the ulcer.

So what I'm basicaly saying is, isolate BB into a clean tank (idealy with a cycled filter - or add mature filter media from the main tank), lower the temperature (gradualy), keep the water pristine and simply start the anti-internal meds. If it's necessary later on, you can resume the finrot medication. This is only if you suspect an ulcer though.

If it's only finrot, just lower the temp., keep the water clean and continue the anti-finrot treatment (I'd keep going until a week after all signs have gone).

Good luck - three-spots are extremely hardy so BB stands a great chance of complete recovery.

Oh, BTW, depending on what med you were planning to use to treat the ulcer, you may actualy be able to use it in conjunction with interpet's anti-finrot med. If it's another interpet treatment, however, the leaflet they come with says they shouldn't be used together. Also, the interpet anti-internal med doesn't treat columaris (though it does aeromonas), so may or may not be useful against the 'fungus' infection - depending on what exactly has caused it in your particular fish' case. All that means is that you may need to treat for finrot once the ulcer has been delt with

edit: As this is a gourami, aeration's not an issue (though it would eb for tankmates). However, it's not a good idea to add only half the dosage as you increase the liklihood of the particular strain of bacteria building a resistance to the meds - which will make them even harder to treat.

 

[Miss Dib Dabs]

Agreed Sylvia. I'm not sure I'm going to be able to isolate him sadly. He gets so upset and stressed when moved away from the family group. The airation in the tank was recently upped for the benefit of the bristlenoses so that's not a big problem.
Ulcerwise, I suspected that as that is what it reminded me of. But none of my fish have ever had one before so it may just be he got a little testy with one of the girls and she fought back. I hadn't noticed anything wrong until this afternoon after the tank clean. But I have been horribly ill recently so it is possible I missed something earlier on.
I'm going to keep a close watch on him having already had the anti fungal med added earlier and what I may do is attempt him in one of the currently empty betta tanks (5g) with a dose of anti internal med tomorrow. If he becomes highly stressed I'll move him back.
I have had success with the anti-internal med previously. And yes, they're a wonderfully hardy breed. Thankfully! I'm very attached to BB!
I do suspect foul play involved simply because two of the girls had a bit of a tiff this afternoon too. No one was hurt but Blue was highly protective of BB and didn't want Spot anywhere near him.
I will take another look at the marks on his side in the morning and see if I still think they're ulcers or not. In the meantime I shall let him rest and sleep with his girls.
The temp is about 77 in the tank currently.
Hugs,
P.
P.S:I have plenty of filter media I can add to the filters in the empty tanks so that's an easy one thankfully! And the tanks are up and running (am awaiting some new betta boys).

 

[sylvia]

Well, good luck with them. I'm sure they'll all be ok, and I hope you feel better too.

 

[sheree]

Hi,

Well i finally found out what killed the last female - one of my male gouramis. He's took another one out tonight and she is currently pretty ill in my hospital tank. I heard a loud splash and saw the female suddenly sink to the bottom, closly followed by the male. All themales and females tend to chase each another around the tank (not any of the other fish) but usually one is fast enough to get out of the others way but I'm not sure if she was in the wrong place and the wrong time and just not fast enough to get out of his way.

I'm just worried about my other 2 females now - as anyone got any suggestions?

 

[sylvia]

Dwarf males are not usualy aggressive enough to kill females housed with them. It is a problem when they're kept as a pair or in an undersized tank, but with multiple females per male, aggression is generaly devided enough so that no single fish is injured. Also, it's generaly the stress resulting from this aggression that opens the females up to disease that can then result in death - not the male directly killing the female. In a tank that's 45 gallons, what you are describing is very unusual. You do occasionaly come across an overly-aggressive individual but it is relatively rare in this species. Still, if you are correct in your assumptions, I would suggest you remove the aggressor and leave your remianing females in peace. Alternatively, take out all the females and leave your male. Keeping them altogether when you know the male's responsible for two serious injuries/deaths, seems like asking for more trouble the way I see it and you'd be better off returning either the male or females to your LFS.

 

[IanG]

Sorry for the Loss,Ive occasionaly had mine fly around the tank then
whizz up for air so fast they have hit the underside of my light cover Im sure!