Don't Understand Emperor Tetras?

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techen

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Okay so I've posted things like this a few times.
 
I put my Emperor Tetras numbers up to 15 in a bid to null the bullying issues. This failed and one male out of the entire 15 tetras would push my big group into the back of the tank where they'd rarely come out.
 
So I returned this rather big male to the LFS, That gave me 3 males and 11 females. What happens? Another male does the same, So I removed him and left 2 males and 11 females to see if it would make a difference, Samething.
 
So I put the male back and am stuck with 3 males and 11 females, The dom male stays in the biggest part of the tank where is the rest of the tetras hide at the side, rarely coming out only for food.
 
So please, Help me out. What do I do? :S
 
let fish.....BE fish
 
let them do as they please, stop trying to control thier actions
 
If we were to let fish be, They'd have miles upon miles of swimming space to get away from bullying males. Not stuck between glass only to suffer over and over with no escape.
 
So as I was saying, Anyone got some information that may help?
 
Since you already have good numbers, could you remove the dominate males just leaving the females and do some plant/ structure rearranging in the tank, then after a day or two add the males back in?.
Sometimes the actual rearranging of a tank can stop a previous bully from bullying again.
It is a serious problem chicken farmers see it all the time where if you just keep removing the bully the next dominate chook (fish whatever) just takes over the now vacant role, until you are left with 1 creature that can be as dominate as it likes with itself. Usually apart from interfering and changing around the habit, the best thing to do is let the creatures work out their heirachy and then things will settle down. Its hard but everyone needs a scapegoat and messing with the heirachy usually just makes the squabbling carry on for longer.
 
So just let them be?
 
I understand that the fish health comes first, But I loved neons. No fuss, swam around in large groups never happier.
 
Then you go to emperor Tetras and there like, Fight fight fight all day long.


Mikey1 said:
If we were to let fish be, They'd have miles upon miles of swimming space to get away from bullying males. Not stuck between glass only to suffer over and over with no escape.
 
 
if you feel like fish are "suffering" in an aquarium, then perhaps you shouldnt be keeping them?
 
Why would I not keep them? Wouldn't it be much better to work out why and what's causing it. Then work out a system where all the fish can live happier in the tank?
 
Like I said, Nature is not contained in a 200L tank :p
 
If you do not understand the question then why are you here?
 
Baccus gave me a fine, detailed answer which I will take into account. 
 
Awwww Techen, you seem to have a bout of problems going on lol!!
 
Baccus gave a good answer I think! It is hard with some fish, Tiger Barbs are a good one! It doesn't matter if you have 6 or 60, sometimes they will just gang up and bully the smallest one... and when that one dies.. they move on to the next smallest one... and when that one dies.... right down through the group! It doesn't matter what you do, that's just what Tigers do sometimes.
 
Same with tetras, especially the flashier sorts like Emperors! Actually... thinking about it... Rainbow Fish are often the same!!
 
Its hard to watch sometimes... but I go on the basis of 'if chopping and changing males doesn't work and you have good ratios... sometimes leaving them be to sort their own fights is best'.
 
So long as you keep a good close eye (like you are now) and make sure you don't have any that are skinny and starving or battered into bits... then let them sort out their own hierarchy or it will go on forever! They might take a week or they might take a month... but they will, given time, sort themselves out!
 
Sometimes the trick as an attentive fishkeeper isn't about knowing when to step in.... but knowing when to stay out! :)
 
A bit of time and patience and a bit of Techen tlc keeping an eye on them, making sure they have good and interesting foods to entice them out and if they do get a little too aggressive, change the décor a bit :)
 
And stop being argumentative people! You all have valid points and Techen had a valid question... as this is Techen's post, have some manners to post appropriately or some common sense in not posting at all.
 
It is actually a very valid question to put forward on fish behaviour as it is probably a fairly common one in which case most people just ignore it or rehome fish.. and can cover numerous species...
 
Thank you Mbou, I understand that seeing a fish in trouble is quite hard and you feel it's your duty to do something about it. But that just adds a knock on effect sometimes.
 
So for now I'll leave the numbers at 3 males and 11 females. That's fine with me, I'll just work on keeping my angels well fed and look at getting some dwarf chains.
 
Enough arguing. I have had to tidy up this thread before it got entirely out of order. If anyone has issues, take it up with me by PM, any other references or argumentative comments in this thread WILL be removed.
 
Techen, what are you feeding the fish at the moment? :)
 
I feed my fish just normal flakes?
 
I have freeze dried bloodworms I sometimes feed them but not often more rarely.
 
One of my angels aren't eating but I'll give them a day or two to get suited to the tank.
 
Other than that, I never see my otos, But theres tons of algae on the wood.
 
Thought about trying some frozen foods? Don't know a tetra that will hide when they have chance to eat some lovely frozen foods!!
 
Or alternatively, something like JBL NovoTabs that stick to the glass, they are apparently addictive as fish cant get enough of them and even if just once a week, given a NovoTab on front glass, it will train them to come to front for food very effectively :) Though getting them to come to front in the first place is harder...
 
Frozen foods are great in the sense that it varies the diet, the fish go mad for it and all arguments are forgetten temporarily whilst the chow down as much as they can physically stuff in their mouths!
 
Don't want anything too big because of tetras... bloodworm, artemia/brine shrimp (brineshrimp and garlic is great if LFS stock TMC foods!), tropical quartet (bloodworm, brineshrimp, tubifex and daphnia cubes), tropical mix (all of previous but in one cube), daphnia, Mysis (so long as tetras are good size...) and im sure there are more!
 
You will find frozen foods are important for the angels especially but might well change the behaviour of the tetras too :)
 
I shall look at these frozen foods and this Navotab o:
 
I don't even have to know your tank size to tell you that it is too small if you are having these issues.  Or there is inadequate decor. 
 

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