Doc7's Fishless Cycle - 20 Gallon

[Doc7]

ah darnit - I just measured 0.5 ppm ammonia, and 12 hours ago I dosed less than what i've been dosing! so that is a bit odd ... : (


Is this normal??

edit: I just tested pH to check and I have dropped down to 7.8 (compared to tap and i'm nigh on 100% confident in this result) compared to the tap and previous tank readings of 8.2 (ie it did not "settle" overnight in the past)

Looks like I am still in an OK range for a fishless cycle but should I expect a large crash on the way?

 

[waterdrop]

You don't -care- about the various little .5 swings day to day, what you care about is week or two week trends. Its like those data-collection exercises in science class.. draw a trend line through the daily dots and see if it goes up or down or horizontal. pH=7.8 is still quite high and the bacteria will like it just fine. Unfortunately, pH measurements themselves really don't help much in predicting a pH crash, as it is not a gentle curve, it just all of a sudden happens one day because the buffering got used up and the water is left with many more free hydrogen protons, which the pH test dutifully measures. You can quite nicely predict a pH crash by using a KH test kit. Everything will hold steady as KH slowly descends through the numbers until KH gets to 4 and below and then you know a pH crash is immanent (all of this assuming you are fishless cycling and nitrate(NO3) is being produced, as that is what creates the acid and drives the process.)

By the way, all of that is interesting but in your case you have really quite high pH overall and are a perfect candidate to get by without spending the money on a KH kit if you don't want to and just fixing things up via a complete water change very occasionally during the end of stage 2 and during stage 3. You'll be bringing in a whole tank of tap water that has plenty of buffer probably.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Doc7]

Now I'm thinking when this is done I might give a go at a female betta sorority (5 or 6 in a 20 gallon tall?) along with pygmy cories...I want to see what the female bettas look like at the LFS first though.

to do this i would plan on doing the soda-bottle HOB filter mod to slow the current for the bettas - is this BAD for cories? do they need a flow? what about my airstone? does that go off as well with female bettas in the tank?

 

[waterdrop]

Interesting, it -is- true that you would have two groups interested in different things (at least at times) in that the pygmys would love to play in a somewhat strong flow whereas the group of bettas would probably be avoiding it most of the time (and I would think the same would hold true with a large bubble stream.) I kind of think of pygmys as living near the edge of the larger stronger flowing portion of a stream whereas bettas would be great at finding the very still backwaters (there are other members better at these fish than me though, they may have better observations to offer.) OM47 has commented before that betta fish like exercise as well as the next fish, as long as they have a peaceful area to retreat to (this is more easily achieved in a larger tank.)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Doc7]

Well I really screwed this one up.

I kept dosing ammonia the last 5 days but slacked and did not take ANY readings. I definitely dosed each day as I keep the bottle on top of my car keys each night. Of course - as I mentioned on my 12/8/10 0223 hours post - I sensed a pH issue coming...and ignoring readings was a horrible idea.

I dosed 3-4 ppm 12 hours ago , got home from work and ran a set of readings - my pH went through the FLOOR to 6.0, my ammonia is reading 1 PPM and still have nitrites to boot.

I'm doing a 100% water change and ticked off!

 

[waterdrop]

Hey, don't worry! You're going to be fine, I expect. When the chemolithoautotrophic bacteria react to a "pH crash" what's really going on is that they are reacting to a *rapid change in pH* rather than the fact that the pH is 6.0 or in that region. They would slowly begin doing their thing again, even if the pH stayed at 6, although it would all be way too slow for a fishless cycler!

You haven't killed them or anything like that, they will respond just fine to the correct "bacterial growing soup" parameters being re-offered. In fact, you did the most reasonable thing given a work situation where you didn't have time to test - you just re-dosed and now you've done a giant down-to-the-gravel water change. The bacteria will like the lowering of nitrites and nitrates and the fresh minerals from the tap water and of course the raised pH! Keep your logging up and you should be back on track.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Doc7]

Glad to know they weren't killed just slowed down. Also glad to see that the consequences of a water change (lowered nitrites and nitrates) will assist in the cycle.

 

[Doc7]

I know I just reset the levels of nitrites 48 hours ago with a water change but I could swear that last night it insta-purpled and tonight it didn"t...I'm really optimistic to see a 0 very soon....

Ammonia bacs are working as fast as ever, no setbacks from the water change obviously.

 

[waterdrop]

 

[Skins]

Hello Doc,
In answer to your question on my thread, yes i'm only dosing every 24hrs and checking for the infamous "Double Zeros" on the 12hr mark.

Keith.

 

[Doc7]

ZERO NITRITES!!!!

 

[waterdrop]

great!

So is this your 24hour zero or your 12hour zero (I still refuse to read those UK 24 hour time numbers, I just like to see in the log that it's a 12 hour or 24 hour test!)

WD

 

[Doc7]

lol those aren't UK numbers, just a 24 hour clock ... good ol' USA here.

This is a 24 hour 0 (actually, 22 hour)

 

[waterdrop]

I still don't like em, takes me entirely too long to figure out that 21h is 9pm, lol.

 

[Doc7]

had >5 nitrites this morning for the 12 but now at the 24 i got a 0 again

i dosed up to 5 ppm, looking forward to see if i get a 0 tomorrow, unsure how long this population will take to grow from eating it in 24 to eating it in 12, plus i'm increasing the ppm to 5 now from 3-4...