Do You Struggle With Tapwater Nitrates ?

[hamfist]

Being a fishkeeper of over 30 years, I have always seemed to do pretty well without testing my water. Just a good understanding of the nitrogen cycle has been enough. I'd always noticed that certain species of fish failed to thrive with me, and I just put it down to the local water (pH, hardness etc)
Anyway, a few months ago I wanted to take it further and bought an API master test kit, and I was extremely happy to find that all my tanks, and my tapwater were showing zero ammonia, nitrite and nitrates.
However, over the last couple of weeks it has become apparent that the nitrate part of the kit is faulty. I bought replacement API nitrate kit components and found that my tapwater nitrates are at least 20ppm, and the tanks therefore run somewhere from 20-40 ppm. No wonder some fish failed to thrive !!
My wife has been trying to keep Bettas recently. I was doing all the maintenance, and really thought I was giving them a good envirnment. However, we are just in the process of losing the 3rd one this year. They are just fading away and dying. THink I know why now ! Also my uaru's fins have just never healed. Wonder if it's down to the nitrates ??

The scientific evidence is all there that nitrates of 20ppm and above are harmful to fish health.

Anyway, I love my fish and want to do my best for them. THought about putting up an RO system, but discounted it as I just didn't see how I could fit it in (the water butt mainly). Also I am put off by the huge waste of water that the process uses.

So I came upon this ... http/www.pozzani.co.uk/water-filters-185/product_info.html

Ordered it on weds. It came this morning, and is clearly a really well make bit of kit. It wastes no water, and simply removes the nitrates from the tapwater, before it goes into the tank.
Installation was pretty easy. I ran a few litres of water through it, just to wash it out, and then started to filter my first "nitrate-free" water.

I tested my plpain tapwater and then the filtered water and here's the results .....

Plain tapwater ... somewhere between 20 and 40ppm. Filtered water .... ZERO !!!!!


What a result ! The filter was really pretty cheap. The consumable filter element should last about 3-4 months with my usage, and they only cost £13 for a refill anyway.

Overall I am thrilled with it, and the prospect of getting all my tanks down to a MUCH lower nitrate level. It will be really interesting to see what effect this might have on my fish.

 

[ian]

nitrate over 20 arn't really harmful to fish. I can't remember where the source is, but fish can survive at 300ppm of nitrate for a small amount of time without ill effect. Most of us with planted tanks with add Nitrates to our tanks as well. The best peice of advice from me is to throw 'all' nitrate test kit in the bin as they are sooooo unreliable.

 

[SuperColey1]

I think it was on the barrreport where nitrate toxicity was brought up in relation to EI with discus.

I think on there it was stated that certain types of fish and 'critters' have higher or lower levels that the nitrates reached toxicity. 140ppm was suggested as the limit for CRS shrimp.

I agree though 20ppm is no problem for any fish. Most hi tec planted tanks are adding 30ppm. However in a non planted tank if the nitrates do increase weekly (nothing a water change would'nt dilute) then I guess it could be a problem. Regular water changes are a must in a non planted tank though IMO. I would suggest 2 x 20% weekly as a good starting point.

AC

 

[hamfist]

Just because a fish "survives" does not mean that it's lifespan has not been shortened, or it's immune system potentially compromised.

It seems to me that the long term effects of lower levels of nitrate on fish (ie. 15-40ppm) are not well understood.

As far as I understand it, there is good evidence that levels as low as 20ppm have negative effects on the fertility of adult fish, the survival of juveniles and growth rates in general. This leads me to think that levels of 20ppm or above is doing long-term damage to fish, causing long-term physiological stress.

Just because a fish "appears" fine and is not obviously struggling, does not mean that it is not being poisoned in the long term, and will live a shorter life, and grow to a smaller size because of it.

People who I respect in the hobby, purposefully try and keep their nitrates under 20ppm. There are many (hearsay) accounts of people finding improved fish health with really low nitrates.
For me, and my level of tapwater nitrates, it was worth it to me to try giving them my fish a lower nitrate environment. I hope to see a difference in the long term, and will report back if that is the case.

It is true that many in this hobby accept that fish die fairly regularly and don't live particulalrly long. I wouldn't mind betting that in many cases long term nitrate poisoning could be a big factor.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

I rely on my fast growing plants (Cambomba, Lugwigia rupens & pygmy rose; [not so dwarf any more hairgrass!]) to lower nitrates quite steadily after each water change, typically 2x33% per week (in what is probably exactly the same tap water source as you).

However, Hamfist, this product could be a much cheaper (and hopefully 100% fish safe) way of achieving instant results after a wate change.

 

[Faythee]

Thank you for sharing this. I was having a very high nitrate problem and it took me a while to discover it was the tapwater ! It doesn't always test positive, only sometimes as well as ammonia .

I use double dose of Prime water conditioner which I think helps. Will checkout the remover like you bought if the problem persists. I don't even give the dogs tapwater to drink.

 

[hamfist]

I rely on my fast growing plants (Cambomba, Lugwigia rupens & pygmy rose; [not so dwarf any more hairgrass!]) to lower nitrates quite steadily after each water change, typically 2x33% per week (in what is probably exactly the same tap water source as you).

However, Hamfist, this product could be a much cheaper (and hopefully 100% fish safe) way of achieving instant results after a wate change.

yeah, plants will work very well. It's just that plants and uaru (or flowerhorns) do not mix !

Not sure where in Soton you are. My water originates from the Test, near Totton. To find out your own areas water stats, and where it comes from go to http/www.southernwater.co.uk/homeAndLeisure/drinkingWater/default.asp, enter your postcode. Then on the next page, click on the link for your water "zone". You should get a full printout of your water stats.

Thank you for sharing this. I was having a very high nitrate problem and it took me a while to discover it was the tapwater ! It doesn't always test positive, only sometimes as well as ammonia .

I use double dose of Prime water conditioner which I think helps. Will checkout the remover like you bought if the problem persists. I don't even give the dogs tapwater to drink.

I definately can sympathise with you. There are other options, but this device is certainly working for me

 

[Mikaila31]

I have 20 ppm out of the tap and have never had an issue with it. I do however run planted tanks, but still 40ppm is what my biggest tank runs at in terms of nitrate. I have never had an issue. Practically all my fish breed, emperor tetras, boesemani rainbow, Angelfish, livebearers, and I even once had GBR spawn in that tank. My Rummy nosed tetras always have bright red noses. All my breeding fish are locally bred which IMO makes a difference. The rummies are the only fish from a LFS and they have always been happy and healthy. I honestly see no reason to change anything. If I go to zero nitrates then I will have to dose nitrates for the plants anyway. Sure they could be a little lower out of the tap, but they certainly don't harm anything.

 

[OldMan47]

The evidence about nitrates is well documented for very high levels of nitrates of over 1000 ppm Hamfist. Many fish have been exposed to those levels for a period of time and had good survival rates. The research has mostly been done with commercial fish like trout or salmon but it does show a tolerance for very high levels of nitrates. I use a standard of keeping my tank water from rising more than 20 ppm above tap water because I consider the nitrates a "canary in the coal mine". By never letting my nitrates rise more than 20 ppm, I am pulling out any contaminants that we are not equipped to measure easily. That is a useful function for measuring nitrates, and really the only reason I measure them.

 

[hamfist]

The evidence about nitrates is well documented for very high levels of nitrates of over 1000 ppm Hamfist. Many fish have been exposed to those levels for a period of time and had good survival rates. The research has mostly been done with commercial fish like trout or salmon but it does show a tolerance for very high levels of nitrates.

My understanding is that this research has looked at short term exposure at high levels, which fish clearly seem to tolerate reasonably well.
However, the situations we are dealing with are considering lifetime exposure to lower levels. You cannot extrapolate the results from short term exposure and assume that the same holds true for long term exposure. As far as I understand it, the scientific jury is still "out" on that.

 

[hamfist]

I have 20 ppm out of the tap and have never had an issue with it. I do however run planted tanks, but still 40ppm is what my biggest tank runs at in terms of nitrate. I have never had an issue. Practically all my fish breed, emperor tetras, boesemani rainbow, Angelfish, livebearers, and I even once had GBR spawn in that tank. My Rummy nosed tetras always have bright red noses. All my breeding fish are locally bred which IMO makes a difference. The rummies are the only fish from a LFS and they have always been happy and healthy. I honestly see no reason to change anything. If I go to zero nitrates then I will have to dose nitrates for the plants anyway. Sure they could be a little lower out of the tap, but they certainly don't harm anything.

That is your experience. Others have had very different experiences with nitrates.

It could well be that some parameter of your water is somehow protective, in that it enables the fish to tolerate slightly higher levels of nitrates. Out of interest, is your water hard/soft ? what pH ? etc

 

[Dave Spencer]

The scientific evidence is all there that nitrates of 20ppm and above are harmful to fish health.

Whereabouts?

This forum, plus many others are full of empirical data to the contrary.

Dave.

 

[hamfist]

The scientific evidence is all there that nitrates of 20ppm and above are harmful to fish health.

Whereabouts?

This forum, plus many others are full of empirical data to the contrary.

Dave.

How about here for example ... http/md1.csa.com/partners/viewrecord.php?requester=gs&collection=TRD&recid=A0130584AH&q=shimura+medaka+2000&uid=789717155&setcookie=yes

quoting the abstract .. "The chronic tests even at low concentration of nitrate indicated evident influences to the growth of the fish both in the early development phase and in the entire life cycle. The maximal allowance concentration of the chronic exposure of nitrate to medaka was estimated to be approximately 25 mg NO3(-)-N/L. A denitrifying process to remove nitrate for maintaining water quality below this limit is strongly recommended."

 

[hamfist]

Also, how about this one ... http/ehp03.niehs.nih.gov/article/fetchArticle.action?articleURI=info:doi/10.1289/ehp.8056

It's a difficult piece of research to read, but they find nitrate levels of 4 and 5 ppm to produce significantly lower reproductive rates in adult female mosquitofish, compared to levels of 0-2ppm.

And that's just me spending half an hour on google. There are loads more research articles out there on the subject .. unfortunately you need to pay to access a lot of them.

 

[SuperColey1]

Well all I can say is that dosing full EI (30ppm+ on top of tapwater and natural production) never stopped my Corys, Rasboras, Rams or shrimp from breeding.

Nor since I stopped dosing EI, removed the CO2 and not doing a single water change for the last 10 months.

All I can say is that my fish bread readily with higher than 30ppm + CO2 and also with whatever the levels are now there are no water changes.

I can't give you an exact figure on what my levels were/are as I do not test...........ever.......nor feel the need to!!! The fish are much more accurate than the majority of test kits out there and even if I had a highly accurate kit I don't see any evidence that would make me wonder if there was a problem.

Call me cynical but science is a strange thing. They spend 4 years 'weighing the planet' get paid well for it and announce the figure. Guess what. The same scientists come back a year later with a new figure!!!!! Jobs for the boys in many cases

Also most government scientists/research departments still announce that nutrients (mainly phosphates) are the cause of algae in the rivers and ditches. We in the planted world know that it isn't. It is the removal of 'natural weeds' to 'make these water courses pretty' which causes the algae. However it suits the agenda of reducing industrial fertilisation of agricultural land.

Even when it is an unintentional error, the causes can be false correlations where another change was made by accident or not and that in fact is the cause of the result.

So call me cynical or sceptical.......I take all research from any source with a huge dose of salt. Especially when there are equal amounts of evidence to the contrary. I would trust the word of a 'joe public' that knows the 'actual' subject over a government researcher or scientist any day of the week.

After all which foods this week are bad for your health which last week were good for your health and vice versa? Jobs for the boys IMO.

And yes I am a little opinionated

However for anyone who feels that want to remove nitrates or any other nutrient I don't see any harm there. Its their money and their choice and not for me to suggest that they shouldn't

AC