Do Bio Wheels Ever Go "bad"

watertown28

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I have a penguin 400 that has bio wheels that I picked up used. I am using it in my 72 gallon fish tank. The reason I asked this is because not only was it used, but I have gotten nothing but ammonia readings ( high for that matter with water changes at least 30% every other day it seems like...API Readings of at least .5 to 1.0 ) Its been running over a month now... getting worried.

I have 7 Dinos in there too.

Just wonder why I am getting nothing else besides ammonia.
 
They only go bad if they are physically damaged, like crushed. Something else must be wrong? Has your filter cycled completely?

Check this out. Lots of good information

Fish in cycle
 
Even though it was used, I guess it must have been out of water for too long and you lost most/all the good bacteria. I agree with TrainRek. Read up on fish in cycling as a matter of urgency if you've not done so already.
 
Um- did you people who responded not see the part about there being fish in the tank???? Fisless cycling is useless here unless the OP moves the fish out of the tank.

water- you are basically doing a fish in cycle and will need to use water changes to hold down ammonia and nitrites during your cycle.
 
Um- did you people who responded not see the part about there being fish in the tank???? Fisless cycling is useless here unless the OP moves the fish out of the tank.

water- you are basically doing a fish in cycle and will need to use water changes to hold down ammonia and nitrites during your cycle.
Okay I was concerned about it. I much rather correct the problem now if they did indeed go bad, than wait 2 months and then find out it was for nothing..
 
Um- did you people who responded not see the part about there being fish in the tank???? Fisless cycling is useless here unless the OP moves the fish out of the tank.

water- you are basically doing a fish in cycle and will need to use water changes to hold down ammonia and nitrites during your cycle.

I'm not seeing anyone talking about fishless cycling here.
 
Sorry, my bad- I apologize. For some reason my brain read fish in as fishless. It happens when you get old.
 
First thing to check is whether the biowheels are actually turning. If they're not it makes a mess of the chemistry.

It might be worth getting more bacteria into your system as well. Do you know any other fish keepers in your area? If so, get some of the squeezings out of their filter sponge and pour then straight into your filter. Otherwise ask your local fish shop.

Don't worry, you'll get there in the end. Keep posting to tell us how it';s getting on.

Steve
 
First thing to check is whether the biowheels are actually turning. If they're not it makes a mess of the chemistry.

It might be worth getting more bacteria into your system as well. Do you know any other fish keepers in your area? If so, get some of the squeezings out of their filter sponge and pour then straight into your filter. Otherwise ask your local fish shop.

Don't worry, you'll get there in the end. Keep posting to tell us how it';s getting on.

Steve
yeah for the most part both are turning. One goes steady, the other one seems to "slow down" for a split second but keeps going.

Could it be possible that I do not have enough stock in a big tank to speed things up? It is a 72 gallon tank with 7 dinos in it.
 
You may need to clean the wheel end pegs and the slots they sit in. The 400 is an Emperor - they come 280 and 400. Penguins come in 100, 150, 200 and 350. Both made by Marineland and now not as good as before they were taken over. The older filters are much better, imo. I have a 400 on my original tank and its been running for over 11 years now.

Use a small brush- pick up the wheels by the plastic rim ends and with a wet brush clean the pegs and around them, the use the brush to clean out the lots for the pegs. You also need to remove the spray bars and clean them out as well if they are clogged.
 
A filter will cycle with levels of ammonia we can't even detect, so it should be fine. A few more fish will help your ammonia levels rise, but you'll end up needing to do more water changes. If you're able to lower the filter, it may be an option to lower the water level of the tank. 72 gallons is a lot and lowering the water would make the ammonia more concentrated.
 
You may need to clean the wheel end pegs and the slots they sit in. The 400 is an Emperor - they come 280 and 400. Penguins come in 100, 150, 200 and 350. Both made by Marineland and now not as good as before they were taken over. The older filters are much better, imo. I have a 400 on my original tank and its been running for over 11 years now.

Use a small brush- pick up the wheels by the plastic rim ends and with a wet brush clean the pegs and around them, the use the brush to clean out the lots for the pegs. You also need to remove the spray bars and clean them out as well if they are clogged.
Ahh yeah its the 350 then. Ill clean that stuff off shortly.

Also, good thing you told me that those filters are not as good as they used to be because I was going to invest into some more filters just to have a few back ups in case something happens ( hey the fish are part of the family now so they gonna be takin care of )

A filter will cycle with levels of ammonia we can't even detect, so it should be fine. A few more fish will help your ammonia levels rise, but you'll end up needing to do more water changes. If you're able to lower the filter, it may be an option to lower the water level of the tank. 72 gallons is a lot and lowering the water would make the ammonia more concentrated.

Yeah cant do the lowering thing. I tested that out before and I think I can lose about 10 gallons worth of water before the pump no longer works.

Water changes are not an issue for me. The big tanks are in the basement close to drains and I also have plumbing close by to that where I can mix hot and cold water to fill a bucket. I will be looking at installing a RO unit sometime soon...
 
There really is not a lot of reason to want to raise the ammonia levels. You only need enough bacteria to cycle what 7 small danios (you wrote Dinos which I think was a typo?) put into all that water. However, you will have to ramp up your stocking very very slowly. For example, adding another 7 danios would double the bio-load and essentially put you through a mix of fish in and fishless cyclying. To avoid this you would have to add just one or perhaps two more danios and then wait til the cycle caught up- likely from a day or two to a couple of weeks max.

Incidentally, different fish react differently to given ammonia levels. As a result it is usually suggest that one use goldies (not feeders) for cool water tank fish in cycling and zebra danios or barbs for warmer tanks.

Also, you said the filter was used. How well did you clean it before you put it on your tank? It is possible that there was dried organic waste in it which would contribute to ammonia levels once it was all back in the water. Feeding, since it become either fish poop or uneaten waste, can contribute to ammonia production as well. If the biowheels were dry for a long enough time some to all the good bacteria and the biofilm in which they lived would be unseen waste too. Finally, it is also possible that you could be getting false readings due to the dechlor brand you are using.

On the other hand you don't have to worry a ton about ammonia and nitrite levels because they should not get dangerously high for any period of time. You should monitor, but the odds are very good you won't find yourself in need of frequent large water changes here.

What most folks fail to realize is that you can not just pick a specific level of ammonia and claim it will be really bad for fish. One must factor in the influences of both pH and temperature. Ammonia is more toxic the higher the pH and temperature. So an ammonia reading of 0.2 ppm in pH 8.5 water at a temperature of 68F (20 ) would require a water change to lower the ammonia level. In the same temp tank but with a pH of 6.5, you need to get over about 15 ppm before needing a water change. In the same two tanks pH wise, if you raise the temperature to 77F (25C) the ppm levels where you need to change water drop 0.1 and and 11.1 respectively. Here is why:

The exact concentration at which ammonia becomes toxic to fish varies among species; some are more tolerant than others. In addition, other factors like water temperature and chemistry play a significant role. For example, ammonia (NH[sub]3[/sub]) continually changes to ammonium (NH[sub]4[/sub][sup]+[/sup]) and vice versa, with the relative concentrations of each depending on the water's temperature and pH. Ammonia is extremely toxic; ammonium is relatively harmless. At higher temperatures and pH, more of the nitrogen is in the toxic ammonia form than at lower pH.
From http://fins.actwin.com/aquariafaq.html

For those of you who get fish shipped in, bear the above in mind when you are deciding how to acclimate the fish. If you raise the pH and/or temperature of the water, you may be unwittingly raising the ammonia toxicity.

Also, Water, why do you need an RO unit?
 
There really is not a lot of reason to want to raise the ammonia levels. You only need enough bacteria to cycle what 7 small danios (you wrote Dinos which I think was a typo?) put into all that water. However, you will have to ramp up your stocking very very slowly. For example, adding another 7 danios would double the bio-load and essentially put you through a mix of fish in and fishless cyclying. To avoid this you would have to add just one or perhaps two more danios and then wait til the cycle caught up- likely from a day or two to a couple of weeks max.

Incidentally, different fish react differently to given ammonia levels. As a result it is usually suggest that one use goldies (not feeders) for cool water tank fish in cycling and zebra danios or barbs for warmer tanks.

Also, you said the filter was used. How well did you clean it before you put it on your tank? It is possible that there was dried organic waste in it which would contribute to ammonia levels once it was all back in the water. Feeding, since it become either fish poop or uneaten waste, can contribute to ammonia production as well. If the biowheels were dry for a long enough time some to all the good bacteria and the biofilm in which they lived would be unseen waste too. Finally, it is also possible that you could be getting false readings due to the dechlor brand you are using.

On the other hand you don't have to worry a ton about ammonia and nitrite levels because they should not get dangerously high for any period of time. You should monitor, but the odds are very good you won't find yourself in need of frequent large water changes here.

What most folks fail to realize is that you can not just pick a specific level of ammonia and claim it will be really bad for fish. One must factor in the influences of both pH and temperature. Ammonia is more toxic the higher the pH and temperature. So an ammonia reading of 0.2 ppm in pH 8.5 water at a temperature of 68F (20 ) would require a water change to lower the ammonia level. In the same temp tank but with a pH of 6.5, you need to get over about 15 ppm before needing a water change. In the same two tanks pH wise, if you raise the temperature to 77F (25C) the ppm levels where you need to change water drop 0.1 and and 11.1 respectively. Here is why:

The exact concentration at which ammonia becomes toxic to fish varies among species; some are more tolerant than others. In addition, other factors like water temperature and chemistry play a significant role. For example, ammonia (NH[sub]3[/sub]) continually changes to ammonium (NH[sub]4[/sub][sup]+[/sup]) and vice versa, with the relative concentrations of each depending on the water's temperature and pH. Ammonia is extremely toxic; ammonium is relatively harmless. At higher temperatures and pH, more of the nitrogen is in the toxic ammonia form than at lower pH.
From http://fins.actwin.com/aquariafaq.html

For those of you who get fish shipped in, bear the above in mind when you are deciding how to acclimate the fish. If you raise the pH and/or temperature of the water, you may be unwittingly raising the ammonia toxicity.

Also, Water, why do you need an RO unit?
because for some reason my pH is off the charts ( the bluest of blue on the API test card ) and also GH and KH off the charts too. To put it bluntly, when I used bottled water, everything except the cycle stuff was very good. Sadly, it is much to hard to carry 100 gallons worth of water into the house.

I more or less want to to help clean the water a bit. I was planing on doing a 50-50 mix with normal tap and RO water. It cant hurt can it? Heck, the betta I USED to have, did very well, until I decided that it would be more cost effective to use tap water that was treated. Few days later, dead.
 
OK- using RO is the way to go in that case. Since you had not posted anything about your params I was just curious mostly :)

Btw- normally API has two pH tests- one is called the pH test and will read from 5.0 to 7.6 . The other is a High Range pH test which will read from 7.4 to 8.8. (The sw pH in the middle has similar colors to the High pH FW one on the left.)
phlowhighrange2.jpg
 

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