Disillusioned About Buying Any Fish From A Lfs?

[Cheffi]

Yes? Join the club. A big part of keeping fish for me is visiting as many fish shops as possible. Every one I go to I convince myself to buy new things like 'ooo must buy that net its at least an inch wider than my other one'.

I was very very lucky to have come onto this forum before my tank even arrived, sadly for some its too late. They've bought the tank (wrong size) started cycling with fish as recommended by their lfs and probably had some deaths before they ever get to to the TFF. Bought some diseased or dying fish as well as being totally incompatible for their tanks and tankmates.

Secondly I was lucky because I bought all of my Malawi from a forum member who looked after his fish well and they came to me in perfect condition and nearly 3 weeks later are nearly all spawning like mad. I was then lucky enough to get some good advice from another forum member regarding catfish and I actually bought 4 from the shop he worked at in Gloucestershire. 2 weeks later they are beautifully healthy and are a great source of entertainment.

That fish shop was spotless and all the fish looked healthy to me. However apart from that one every single fish shop I have been to I have seen at least one dead or dying fish. Fish that have been torn apart by their tank mates (euthanasia would be the best bet here after all who wants to buy a dead fish), sunken stomaches and thin and weedy looking specimens who more often than not are not in cleanest of tanks.

What is wrong with these people. If this was in the days when pet shops could sell kittens and puppies they would have the RSPCA down on them like a ton of bricks. Why do fish shops get away with? How damn cruel it is to respond to a concerned customer over a fish with no fins and its scales practically picked off 'oh well thats cichlids for you they always have to pick on one'. If you can't provide the correct environment to sell animals, any animals then don't sell them.

Today to bring my tank up to my ideal stocking I have 5 adult Maylandia Estherae coming to go with the solitary female I have. There are others I would have preferred but sentimentality got the better of me. These are also from a fellow Malawi keeper who is concerned about where his fish end up. I will never buy fish from a fish shop..ever....except another two Petricola from Glos . Sorry, rant over now.

 

[BigIan]

i think we must be lucky as we have several really good fish shops around here, our faverote is paws for thought in leeds who`s staff have the most knoledge i`ve ever known they are bang up to date with the latest methods and species, and are really incrediby helpfull.
Also QSS in bradford the staff there are great, and they have lots of first imports and rare breeds, and the other day the guy who owned it stopped me buying stuff and told me a much cheaper and easyer way to do what i wanted to do.
every fish shop is going to have casualitys, all there tanks are over stocked, and we must remember its a busniess, they are in it to make money, but if the staff know there stuff then fishy casualitys will be kpt to a minimum. and sick fish will be treated well and tanks quarantined ect.

 

[4ftguppy]

Yeah - I think many shops that are staffed by 'kids' who know very little are the worst.

Find a shop run by aquarists rather than by non-aquarists

Avoid the chains like petsmart etc.

And the animal conditions in ANY shop are far superior to the conditions they face when being shipped over from on planes. Tank bred local fish are WAY tougher than imports. If you join a local fish group, you'll find all manner of fish, cheaper, halthier and more acclimatised to your water. This is the way to go - I haven't bought a fish from a shop in years!

 

[Tolak]

There are only a couple of local, non-corporate shops I would consider buying fish from. A local aquarist society is the way to go, I get nearly all my fish, food, and other supplies through them.

 

[Saedcantas]

As an LFS worker of 7 years I cant help feeling like I should be the little voice of the good LFS's who are all too often forgotten or clumped in with the rest on this forum

In my opinion it is unreasonable to expect to go into even the best shop and never ever see a dead, dying or slightly eaten fish.
In my own workplace we stock about 15,000 fish. It upsets me when people can walk into my shop, ignore the 14,999 healthy happy fish and only have something to say about the one that just died while I wasnt looking and judge our business entirely on that one problem. Worse still are the people who see fish in quarantine signs and instead of thinking "great stuff, they know there is a problem, they're treating it and they're also not selling them either!" but say loudly, hmmm lot of ill fish in there isnt there.

It is clear that a proportion of pet owners prefer to deal with breeders directly due to the better standard that you just can maintain when it's just you caring for just your own stock. These people are usually after more specialist animals or advanced keepers who feel they have graduated from ever having to be so lowly as to buy from a horrible place like an LFS.

It's not fair to write off LFS's and petshops as a whole. Many petshops and LFS's are very good, with staff who do care about their job and the animals they care for and sell, for many people LFS's are ideal and do good work.

It just makes me sad to see LFS's grouped as one and labelled as 100% rubbish all of the time. I strive hard to make a big difference and some people never notice all the good some shops do do.

 

[Cheffi]

As an LFS worker of 7 years I cant help feeling like I should be the little voice of the good LFS's who are all too often forgotten or clumped in with the rest on this forum

In my opinion it is unreasonable to expect to go into even the best shop and never ever see a dead, dying or slightly eaten fish.
In my own workplace we stock about 15,000 fish. It upsets me when people can walk into my shop, ignore the 14,999 healthy happy fish and only have something to say about the one that just died while I wasnt looking and judge our business entirely on that one problem. Worse still are the people who see fish in quarantine signs and instead of thinking "great stuff, they know there is a problem, they're treating it and they're also not selling them either!" but say loudly, hmmm lot of ill fish in there isnt there.

It is clear that a proportion of pet owners prefer to deal with breeders directly due to the better standard that you just can maintain when it's just you caring for just your own stock. These people are usually after more specialist animals or advanced keepers who feel they have graduated from ever having to be so lowly as to buy from a horrible place like an LFS.

It's not fair to write off LFS's and petshops as a whole. Many petshops and LFS's are very good, with staff who do care about their job and the animals they care for and sell, for many people LFS's are ideal and do good work.

It just makes me sad to see LFS's grouped as one and labelled as 100% rubbish all of the time. I strive hard to make a big difference and some people never notice all the good some shops do do.

Firstly I'm not lumping all lfs into the same group. I'm just commenting that all bar 2 now (just visited a new one) I have not been impressed with. I was also not just commenting about the condition of the fish but also about the bad advice given by a lot of them.
One thing I've noticed is that fish stocked by them that have come in from local breeders or Uk based breeders look far more healthy than some of the mixed boxes that come in from places like Singapore.

I have not written off my lfs's I just won't buy fish from them. However everything else I need I'm happy to buy from them..... unless I can get a better deal on ebay!!!

 

[Tolak]

Not all lfs suck, but most of the corporate owned ones do. A 7 year employee at a shop would be considered long term, you rarely see this at corporate shops. The employee turnover, which causes a lack of knowledge, is one problem. Ordering fish from across the continent or planet is another. Caring about nothing but the profit made is the root of it. The employees get sucked into this, and all they care about is the paycheck.

One floater out of 15,000 is amazing; you must keep a good eye on the setup. I've seen shops with a few per tank. Once again, corporate shops. I've never seen a quar tank in a corporate shop. My favorite lfs put a hold on their weekly delivery of angels this week, tank is being quared. That is a good shop. It's family owned & operated, with plenty of long-term employees.

Breeders usually breed a limited species, can give these the specialized attention they need, and are very knowledgeable about their specific fish. A shop usually can't show you what the fish will look like as an adult. A breeder can show you the parents. A breeder will know the best diet, care, and what to do if you have a problem in the future. A breeder will often be willing to help you if you have a problem in the future. I don't think it has a thing to do with the "lowly fish store". Nearly every shop I've been in is more aesthetically pleasing than my fish room, the corporate shops being the most flashy. I think price plays a part, as well as being a knowledgably buyer, knowing locally bred fish will acclimate better to your tank.

I deal with a few lfs, I buy things from them I can't get anywhere else, as well as supply them with a product superior to that bought from fish farms hundreds of miles away. The privately owned shops niche is providing a better product. We work together, that isn't writing them off. Neither is the $400 in credit I have at one shop that is an emergency fish fund. If they ever go under, I'll be the one writing it off.

The good shops get praise, as well as recommendations from me. The bad ones get shot down. Sadly the corporate owned shops, the ones with the most money, have the worst reputation.

 

[Saedcantas]

One floater out of 15,000 is amazing; you must keep a good eye on the setup. I've seen shops with a few per tank.

Now now Tolak I never quite said that! I was hypothetically speaking On average at any one time we may have at least 2 tanks quarantined and on an average first thing in the morning fish check you'll get about 20 dead. I work for a family owned business although I'm not actually family!
The main ethos that governs the way I work (and the way other good pet and LFS workers do their jobs) is a fundamental interest and devotion to animal welfare, not only caring for them well in the shop but homing them well for their futures too. I get paid the same whether I sell anything at all each day or not and if I wanted a job that paid more than buttons I'd definitely not be working with animals!

Anyway, my reply I suppose wasnt really aimed at this particular topic, more it was a general rant in response to opinions against shops which are very often expressed on internet forums

Lotte***

 

[Teelie]

There are several LFS' and a few corporate places here that sell fish and I used to work at one of the LFS' and I have been to several outside my area. It really depends on the individual shop. The one I worked at/go to the most has the healthiest fish and like Saedcantas, they usually have two or three tanks quarantined for one reason or another (sick or new fish usually) and rarely ever dead fish.

There are a few other shops in my area and they vary from acceptable to "not going there again" and one of them is bad enough I would rate Walmart above it in some respects.

We've got a half-decent PetCo I get stuff from occasionally though the last time I got fish there, all but two of the eight died. There's a PetSmart about 2 hours away that is the absolute cleanest, healthiest corporate store I've ever seen and I'd buy fish from there if they were closer.

It's really unfair I think to lump or generalize about shops or even corporate stores as it really does depend on the individual place.

 

[Tolak]

Nonetheless, it sounds like a good shop, more shops should be like that. Yours is the type of shop I have no problem doing business with, nor should anyone else. I think the problem arises with employees & management who don't have as strong an ethic as your concerning animals. I drive past one shop that I deal with every morning & evening, it's on my way to work. I've seen the manager's car there at 7 am on several occasions. They don't open until 10 am, and he is salaried. That's a good shop. Most anyone working at a pet shop can make more money somewhere else, I consider it a vocation, similar to underpaid teachers & police.

 

[justask]

Here here Saedcantas & Tolak

 

[Inchworm]

While carelessness and neglect might well be the reason why you see sick fish in an lfs, there's another reason too. Imported fish usually take some time adjusting to local water conditions, and they may have had to do this several times in the course of their journey from their place of origin to your town. If at any point they were not slowly and carefully acclimated to a different pH, they will suffer for it. They might have been overheated or chilled along the way. By the time they reach the store they might also have picked up bacterial infections or other problems, or be stressed to the point where they become ill from bacteria that would normally not bother them.

My lfs imports some of his fish directly from Brazil and many of the corys I own arrived sick and/or appeared to be suffering from pH shock. I bought many of my fish in that condition since it's often the only way to get the more unusual species. (If I waited to see how they would do, they might be gone before I could buy any.) I've actually selected corydoras from tanks of fish that were so sick that some of their tankmates had their barbels eroded off and/or lost their tails, and nursed them back to health. Sometimes I've been successful at this, and other times not, but it's the only way to get the fish I'm looking for.

The particular lfs I am speaking about is also the one I sell the fry I've raised to. These fish arrive in excellent health and I've never returned to see a sick one in their tanks.

This is the sad reality of the fish business. This store has been in the same location for as long as I can remember (at least 20 years or so) and is always busy. The sales help are all long time fishkeepers themselves and have worked there for a number of years. If you go in there at any time you can find experienced fishkeepers among their customers, and a lot of them have specialty collections or multiple tanks. In other words, the owner of this store does not make his living selling plecos to kids.

But, I can understand why someone who has not kept fish for long enough to know about these difficulties would get the wrong impression.

 

[OohFeeshy]

Indeed, I think some shops could well do with cutting down the display tanks and either having a few blotted out as QT/hospital (as one LFS does) or having a few small tanks 'out back'. It never ceases to amaze me how with every new delivery, shops add more fish, sick from travelling, to a tank of already sick fish. One particular shop I go to is a prime example- it's not as if space is an issue, there are plenty of tanks completely full of plants that could be put to good use, but instead they have five or six species in each tank, don't treat or QT sick fish and leave dead fish in every tank. It's not as if I'm overestimating the problem- one or two small fish, fair enough, but when a 6" pleco has been left in the tank logn enough for its few tankmates to have reduced it to a skeleton, that's neglectful.

 

[Inchworm]

...one or two small fish, fair enough, but when a 6" pleco has been left in the tank logn enough for its few tankmates to have reduced it to a skeleton, that's neglectful.

I have to agree with you there!

 

[PaulEbs]

I have to big-up Maidenhead Aquatics now, to be fair I've only been to my local one [in Bourne End] and the larger one in Oxford - but the advice, the questions, and the rules that they seem to follow are superb!

I watched one employee talk a new family round from having a goldy bowl to a small jewel aquarium - and it wasn't sales talk - it was 'this is actually the way to look after fish' talk.

Every time I have a question that needs immediate answering - just give them a call, and the answers are always spot on.

Are all their stores as good? I'd like to think they follow a tradition in all their stores - proper quality service!

But, quite rightly, I NEVER buy any fish/equipment from 2 of my other locals as the conditions for the fish are shocking.

Paul.