Discussion About Lfs Employees

lisa_perry75 · Sep 26, 2007

I would like to add that I worked at an LFS but the MAIN thing to remember is that everyone will know different things, I mean one person says clown loaches safe in brackish other people say not.
Some people say you can keep a male betta with two females others say not, everybody seems to find different things with fishkeeping... So it is hard. It depends where your info comes from too, I think alot of people believe what any book says, when I've found loads of books in the library have been very out dated.

Some people say the rule is one inch per litre, some people say one inch per gallon... Whos right?

nmonks · Sep 26, 2007

lisa_perry75 said:
I would like to add that I worked at an LFS but the MAIN thing to remember is that everyone will know different things, I mean one person says clown loaches safe in brackish other people say not.

Indeed. But the point is that while everyone might have an opinion, it isn't always the case that everyone's opinion is valid.

lisa_perry75 said:
Some people say you can keep a male betta with two females others say not, everybody seems to find different things with fishkeeping... So it is hard. It depends where your info comes from too, I think alot of people believe what any book says, when I've found loads of books in the library have been very out dated.

Agreed. What isn't always appreciated by newcomers to the hobby is how much it has changed. Domestication has made some fishes much easier to keep than was the case 20 years ago. Discus are a good example here. On the other hand, inbreeding has ruined some fish, and these have gone from being hardy fish to delicate ones. Fancy guppies and dwarf gouramis fall into that sad category. Fishes that were widely sold when I started keeping fish, such as blue acara and Australian rainbowfish, are now only rarely seen. Dwarf Gourami Disease and Neon Tetra Disease are both ubiquitous plagues on the hobby now, but 20 years ago were very rare. So to with methods. Carbon and salt were both widely used and widely recommended in the past, but are now both completely obsolete and serve no useful function. Undergravel filters were at one time the standard filtration system, but you hardly see them nowadays. And so it goes on...

lisa_perry75 said:
Some people say the rule is one inch per litre, some people say one inch per gallon... Whos right?

This one is easy: Neither. The capacity of an aquarium is NOT related to its volume. What matters above all else is surface area (for gaseous exchange) and filtration capacity (for water quality). Moreover, the bigger the fish, the less the "inch per litre/gallon" rule makes sense. Obviously a 72-inch shark requires a lot more aquarium space than 72 neon tetras, each an inch long. And yet the "inch per litre/gallon" rule still gets trotted out. That's an extreme example, but even if you compare a 1-inch fish to a 2-inch rule, because volume increases as a cube with length, a 2-inch fish will actually need 8 times the aquarium capacity of a 1-inch fish. It's basic maths. So -- die, die, die I say to that stupid rule!

Really, the only guide that matters is common sense and water testing. Providing the fish has space to express its normal behaviours and the water quality remains good, the tank is big enough. Erring on the side of caution is always a good idea of course!

Cheers, Neale

madgap · Sep 26, 2007

I come across good and bad fish store staff in equal measure. The ones who do seem good are they who not only sell fish but they who also keep them with passion.
But it is the same in ever job... I'm a joiner and damn good at it too. And I come across some real numbties in the trade.
Even professional people. I went to see a doctor about a painful and swollen foot. A karate injury. And as I talked he was trying to compare my feet. Whilst my shoes were on! A royal numbty.

I wish though tha I could go to any fsh store and know that what the person say's is gospel. But ultimatly the responcability is down to us, the customer. We should do our homework first.

Marine/Freshwater? · Sep 26, 2007

What lfs employees say is worthless, if you dont bother to research fish then you do not deserve to haev a fish tank. I am not saying there is anything wrong with what lfs employees say but, you have to research your fish on your own. Impulse buys= screw ups. For example, me 6 yrs old, Green Spotted Puffer+5 gallon tank+undergravel filter+freshwater+ph 7.0= instantaneous death. That was my defining moment... I figure the attitude you have when you meet an lfs employee is omg i cant trust this person as far as i can throw them, or wow i bet this person is a blithering idiot. It is always better to find out what kind of advice the person gives before you trust their advice completely. But most importantly you have to research on your own. There is no one that can know more about your fish than yourself. All it takes is googleing it and looking up its natural habitat on fishbase.org. Lfs employees are there to sell you fish.

DarkEntity · Sep 26, 2007

Marine/Freshwater? said:
What lfs employees say is worthless, if you dont bother to research fish then you do not deserve to haev a fish tank. I am not saying there is anything wrong with what lfs employees say but, you have to research your fish on your own. Impulse buys= screw ups. For example, me 6 yrs old, Green Spotted Puffer+5 gallon tank+undergravel filter+freshwater+ph 7.0= instantaneous death. That was my defining moment... I figure the attitude you have when you meet an lfs employee is omg i cant trust this person as far as i can throw them, or wow i bet this person is a blithering idiot. It is always better to find out what kind of advice the person gives before you trust their advice completely. But most importantly you have to research on your own. There is no one that can know more about your fish than yourself. All it takes is googleing it and looking up its natural habitat on fishbase.org. Lfs employees are there to sell you fish.

That's mostly complete and utter rubbish tbh.

You cant assume everyone is an idiot, There are some very good stores out there with good well knowledgeable people. If you go in with that attitude then you are the fool.

If you haven't been to a shop before just ask some simple questions about something you know is fact then see how they stand up, if they tell you an Arapaima will fit in a 20 gall long, then assume they are "sales people" and not idiots, find the person who is the shop specialist and ask them instead...really it us the people buying who need the knowledge mostly and then some, the people in the stores imo will mostly know enough for the common garden everyday fish sales, queries etc anything more than that is a bonus. You will always get sales people in shops who know bugger all and are just there to sell.

lisa_perry75 · Sep 26, 2007

Yeah but you would not believe the amount of people who just plain don't give a s**t. It is the most depressing thing ever. About 90% of the people I served did not give a crap about fish welfare. It was a just fish that could be easily replaced :shout:

Which is one of my main reasons for quitting. A majority just wanted goldfish and get as many as they could and shove them all in together with no filter (! ) Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Neale
I realise two opinions can't be right things like that stem from people who have the attitude "but I put 20 neons in all at once and they all seemed fine".
I also realise about the inch per whatever rule being rubbish, I was just mentioning both to get my point across :good:

Along the inch per rule lines I have heard many lfs's quoting it. I'm just trying to explain a bit why lfs's may seem rubbish advicewise. When I worked at the shop I was on here alot, so I was ok! I hope, anyway.

So rather than just complaining about it, what could be done???

On a side note I have been disgusted recently by the crazily overstocking of tanks. I visited TriMar aquaria and I was SO disgusted. I mean REALLY REALLY bad. In a tank roughly 15 x 12 x 12 (very rough, might be a bit bigger but I was so horrified) would have 8 x 6" elephantnoses, a few catfish, a few plecs heck maybe a 4" puffer for good luck. In another was about 30 tetra size fish, a plethora of catfish and plecs and quite probably a 4" puffer. There were a few 'lucky' puffers who had this whole tank to themself( !).
Then MA in havant was quite overstocked in several tanks, you know in the main size stock tanks in MA are all the same the about 10 x 10 x maybe 2' one had no less than 40 2-3" clown loaches!!!

Whats going on?

I Love my fishies · Sep 26, 2007

I have 5 LFS in my area and one of those LFS (the fish Cave) has a very well trained an have knowledgeable staff they are wonderful the guy I usually go in to ask questions (the manager) has 30 years of experience as well as always updating his information he will spend an hour talking to me about various things I ask

and explain why he gives me the advice he does so I can understand way things work i.e if I ask about stocking he will give me a run down of what types of fish live together in the wild and how the different eco systems work or explain to me the whole science to planted tanks etc he has a great passion for fish keeping and enjoys imparting his knowledge,

and he only employs staff who also have a passion for fish keeping. So rather than always slamming our LFS we should indeed give the good ones a pat on the back.

However on the flip side between the other 3 LFS near me I have only found 3 staff members who have been knowledgeable and gave good advice

Sometimes when I have been in a LFS I have heard some young kids (staff members) giving very bad advice to customers that would most prob end in death for the poor fish

Now this isn't really the staff members fault as they need to be trained by management if they do not have the correct knowledge to be able to give people correct advice.

I think the responsibility is that of the store managers to make sure their staff are trained and that training is constantly updated because after all their staff are selling animals to people and if they give out the wrong care advice this could lead to animal cruelty with the new owner not even realising what they are doing or what conditions they have their animals living in is cruel, because they have been misinformed.

Personally I feel it is very unethical for any pet store not to have in place a very efficient training program for staff.

Cthulhu ftagn · Oct 7, 2007

Some staff will know what they are talking about, some will not, and some will try to give you a reassuring answer - perhaps so that you will make a purchase and leave feeling happy. After all, no matter how badly it goes for you, next time they see you, there will probably be another product you can buy to make things better.

So how are you going to find out if the person you're talking to is the sort who'll give you bad information?

Your best bet is to ask a question you already know the answer to. You won't learn anything about the fish, but you might learn something about the person. The only way you'll learn something from asking a question you don't know the answer to... is if they answer "I don't know." Then you'll know you're dealing with someone who thinks being honest is worth more than appearing knowledgable or making a sale.