Discus

[xweeqtx]

These beautiful fish have always tempted me. I'm not sure if I have both the time and space for them, so I've a couple of questions:

What size of tank do they need? Or what would you recommend?
How many is required to be kept together?
Do they need any kind of special feeding regime?
Can they be aggressive?

I spend quite a bit of time looking at the discus tank in my LFS(there's 4 in there, but I think they are actually the owner's own fish). I'd like to do something the same as what they have done, with a heavily planted gravel substrate tank, 4 discus and some species of pleco..

 

[cheesy feet]

These beautiful fish have always tempted me. I'm not sure if I have both the time and space for them, so I've a couple of questions:

What size of tank do they need? Or what would you recommend? 50-55gallon (us) for 5 adult discus
How many is required to be kept together? atleast 5
Do they need any kind of special feeding regime? Yes, when young they should be fed 5x or more daily.3x daily when adult.
Can they be aggressive? Yes, but nothing too bad.They may bully their own kind.


I spend quite a bit of time looking at the discus tank in my LFS(there's 4 in there, but I think they are actually the owner's own fish). I'd like to do something the same as what they have done, with a heavily planted gravel substrate tank, 4 discus and some species of pleco..

To do that you would have to get adult Discus, because with gravel and plants it makes it easier to stunt their growth at a young age.Young Discus require daily water changes you see, and as I said before they need to be fed atleast 5x a day.You could always get a 55 gallon, bare bottom, add 5 Discus.Grow them on and then change the tank to a planted one.Adult Discus are usually very expensive, where younger oens you can easily pick them up for £10.00-£25.00.

DO loads of research, books, care sheets and advice from other people on this forum is useful.

 

[xweeqtx]

Thanks cheesy feet

I never knew substrate and plants could stunt their growth, maybe I should mention that to the guy in the LFS - he has one that is very noticeably smaller than the other 3.
Well, if it was to their advantage to start off with a bare tank then yeah, that's easy enough to change to at least until they grow.

DO loads of research, books, care sheets and advice from other people on this forum is useful.

That's the reason I'm posting, with such a fish I wouldn't dream of jumping into it.

 

[tansdale]

We've had discus for a few years now, and they're not so hard to keep. However, they do like regular water changes, and we use RO water to remove the hardness, although we don't do anything more to bring the Ph down further. We also keep our water at about 30C.

Never tried breeding them though.

 

[merry78]

i dont know much about discus, but the main things i have heard are:
-Tank size wayyyyy bigger than you would expect to need. (applies also with pleco)
-Water quality A-1, top notch, super clean
-Live food in conjunction with balanced pre-prepared food if possible, but not feeder fish/ shrimp (carry disease).
-soft water, low pH preferable.
-plants/decor arranged to provide long vertical spaces (ie as provided by Val sp., to allow comfortable movement through decor)
-bogwood is meant to be a good addition as will help with water characteristics, and help to mimic wild conditions.

 

[kev_kb]

A 55g is the smallest you'd want to go for 5. Buy fish around 4" for best success, they are a lot easier to stunt when smaller. As already posted a bare bottom tank is best. When you consider yourself an expert at keeping discus and (seperate) planted tanks then you can mix them together.

Discus require higher temperature than normal, around 30C and really need soft water to thrive and live out their 10 life span. You'll probably want to purchase an RO Unit to filter your tap water unless your very lucky. Consider the extra cost, plus the extra time it takes to prepare water for changes, this will vary on the unit but bargain say 3 hours per water change. I do 2 20% changes per week for my discus, if you keep smaller ones then you'll need to increase this.

If none of that has put you off then seek out a decent discus breeder local to you. You need to find good quality fish that are round and not rugby ball shaped, also look for the correct size of eye. Sounds weird, but after you've seen a few discus you'll know what I mean.

Keep gentle tank mates and maybe forget the pleco, avoid anything big and only consider small ones such as bristlenose. Even then watch them as they suck on the side of discus.

 

[thegnu]

I go against the grain here.
Water changes we do to keep the nitrates down and to a lesser extent you might argue to freshen up the tank, what ever that means.
As long as the nitrates are kept low that should tell you how many water changes are needed. Smaller discus would produce less ammonia-nitrite-nitrate, so why would they need more water changes than a bigger older one, doesn't make sense. Breeders change lots of water for the simple fact that lots of them house far too many fish in their tanks with no filter so they are forced to keep the water circulating constantly with fresh water to wash out the ammonia from the water that the fish are producing and lots of breeders use tap water with the wrong hardness and pH as to produce enough ro water is hard work and expensive.
Why not a gravel bottom and planted tank; Answer, because they tell you that a lot of uneaten food will fall between the gravel, get lost, rot and turn the water bad. It would if you fed flake as it crumbles into tiny pieces but not if you feed tetra prima granules which all discus love and frozen bloodworm and you can always do a gravel vac. Planted tanks give your discus somewhere to hide, looks more natural and pretty to us and them and makes them feel happier and a happy discus is a healthy discus.
Breeding discus, you do need soft, low GH, acidic water (ro water - unless you are blessed with soft tap water-that when collecting is placed a stocking full of peat in the collecting bucket) discus are the same as most other fish, get the water right and they do the rest, thats what they are on this earth for to eat sleep and make little discus. (I borrowed that line from Jaws) but i keep all my fish at the water that they would be found in in the wild, water that they would breed in. If i cant get the water alike i wouldn't keep the fish i would keep ones i could get the water alike.

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

Just browsed through, so i'm going to say my part (sorry if it's already been told.)

Chessyfeet,

Discus do not get stunted by the plants, but more likely by the gravel they are in! Gravel is a nice little gathering spot for uneaten food and other decomposer. It is just easier to get all that out in a bare-bottom tank!


Let me answer your questions, the way I would say correct :

I recommend a 50-55 gallon tank as a minimum (55 being better.) Discus really need to be kept in a group of 5 minimum, so a 55 gallon and 5 Discus normally go hand in hand

As said above, 5 Discus minimum is needed, so aggression is spread out correctly! If not, Discus can be pretty nasty!

Feed the Discus a good flake, frozen foods such as brine, blood worms, beef heart, and mysis, and live food occasionally (black worms, daphnia, brine, blood worms, etc.) IMO 3-4 feedings per day is sufficient, but you can do 5 (young discus.)

Discus are only really aggressive in small sized groups, although they may get a little nippy with each other. Don't be scared! This is totally normal!

IMO no pleco should be kept with Discus. Plecos produce a lot of waste, and Discus are quite sensitive. Some plecos can also suck the nutrient rich slime coating off the Discus, which will lead to stress, and then death!

Keep researching before you buy! Many people rush into this, and come out with dead Discus, so study up before you get em'!


Best of luck,

DL

 

[blue acara]

I go against the grain here.
Water changes we do to keep the nitrates down and to a lesser extent you might argue to freshen up the tank, what ever that means.
As long as the nitrates are kept low that should tell you how many water changes are needed. Smaller discus would produce less ammonia-nitrite-nitrate, so why would they need more water changes than a bigger older one, doesn't make sense. Breeders change lots of water for the simple fact that lots of them house far too many fish in their tanks with no filter so they are forced to keep the water circulating constantly with fresh water to wash out the ammonia from the water that the fish are producing and lots of breeders use tap water with the wrong hardness and pH as to produce enough ro water is hard work and expensive.

There is a lot of disagreement among the discus keepers but most of it is trivial. Like the best amount and frequency of water changes. They are necessary and the reasons are more complicated than what tests indicate. There are probably growth inhibiting pheromones that need to be exported out of the system continuously as well as the more obvious pollution. Much theory not much proof except that it can be seen that there is a large difference in quality between fish raised with or without regular large water changes. Id reccomend 2 70-75% water changes per week

IMO no pleco should be kept with Discus. Plecos produce a lot of waste, and Discus are quite sensitive. Some plecos can also suck the nutrient rich slime coating off the Discus, which will lead to stress, and then death!

I agree most plecs are unsuitable in a Discus tank, big plecs may scare the Discus with there sometimes fast erratic movements and as you say some may feed on the slime coat- otos defenatly do this.

However there are some plecs that would be a welcome addition to the Discus tank, for example the Hypancistrus or Peckoltia L134 Leopard frog plecos eat exactly the same foods discus prefer and they find any food that the discus miss, they stay reasonably small and add more interest to the tank.

 

[kev_kb]

There is a lot of disagreement among the discus keepers but most of it is trivial. Like the best amount and frequency of water changes. They are necessary and the reasons are more complicated than what tests indicate. There are probably growth inhibiting pheromones that need to be exported out of the system continuously as well as the more obvious pollution. Much theory not much proof except that it can be seen that there is a large difference in quality between fish raised with or without regular large water changes. Id reccomend 2 70-75% water changes per week

Agreed, plus you also need to think about ph crashes. If there's uneaten food and debri breaking down over a short period time it will lower the ph of the water, you should already be using a fairly low ph for Discus so you can end up with a very very low ph and potentially dead fish. Even more so when raising juveniles and using beef heart mix etc.

Surprised you suggest 70% water changes though, do you actually do this yourself? I'd suggest changing no more than around 30% at a time, unless something has polluted the tank. If you do such large water changes be sure the new water is the same temperature and chemistry as the main tank.

 

[Aphotic Phoenix]

Growth Inhibiting Hormones and the requirement of pristine water conditions is the reason that water gets changed more often for juvi discus. Also keep in mind that while Juvies are smaller, they usually get fed several times a day in comparison to adults, which = more chances for food to become pollution.

 

[tansdale]

We've always had a pleco or two in the tank with the discus, with no problems (okay, there's always a first time). They seem happy in the warm water (30C) and IMO help to keep the tank clean. Sure they produce waste themselves, but it tends to gather in one place and is easy to syphon out.

We do 40% water changes using only RO water, I think anything over 50% is too risky. Must watch pH, since sudden changes are not good, even small ones.

Currently we've got 4 discus in a 50 gallon tank, but we're just upgrading to 100 gallons, so will probably get some more in a while.

We did actually lose a red-melon a month or two ago, apparently she got stuck under an ornament and drowned. We also lost one a year or two ago but we never really knew why. We think it may have had something to do with the fact that we'd been away, and the person feeding them in our absence was grossly over-feeding them, resulting in a lot of waste in the tank.

 

[blue acara]

Surprised you suggest 70% water changes though, do you actually do this yourself? I'd suggest changing no more than around 30% at a time, unless something has polluted the tank. If you do such large water changes be sure the new water is the same temperature and chemistry as the main tank.

Yes I do the 2 times 75% water change on my Discus tank. I've got a barrel next to the tank which I fill the previous day with 5/8 RO and 3/8 tap, then turn on a heater and air pump. Obviously the advantage of such large water changes is that they remove much more of the old water. I don't know the maths but large changes remove just as much or more than small daily water changes, less work also.

We do 40% water changes using only RO water, I think anything over 50% is too risky. Must watch pH, since sudden changes are not good, even small ones.

Yes the water change water should have the same chemistry as the tanks- using the barrel method mentioned above it will be.
The ph of the water where these fish come from does fluctuate- fish can alter its internal pH somewhat rapidly to cope with change.

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