Disasterous

[LionessN3cubs]

Someone just duct tape me to a WALL before anything else goes wrong ...please?


I just "cleaned" the tank using my bright idea as well as the other suggestions...which would have been fine except Im a TOTAL moron today and shouldnt have gotten out of bed.


Was vaccing along..actually figured my vac out for the first time. I had left the filter plugged in and running since I planned on only going so far and then adding another bucket of water..but Forgot to pay attention to the waterline and it fell below where the filter was sucking air. Stopped there, no biggie since I can get water back in quickly. yeah except genius me got sidetracked by the fact that when the filter started spitting water back into the tank, my biowheel wasn't turning.

Needless to say..I probably just destroyed ALL of the bacteria now by dumping cupfuls of (thankfully tank) water into the filter to get the biowheel moving...ALOT of water. Then to make matters worse, I decided then to rip the filter apart and dump it because I realized there were rocks in there from cycling (dont ask)and the media wasn't even in right ...I DID remember to drop the media into the tankwater...but as much as I disturbed everything in there my cylce probably just totally crashed UGH. NOT TO MENTION..that I stirred up WAY more gunk than I will EVER be able to clean out of there because until today I wasnt even using the damn vacuum correctly so basically hadnt even vacuumed the tank correctly since I started back in March.

So now my question is this. Because the tank IS HORRIBLY filthy...can I scoop these fish into a temporary home (like the fish bucket I use for cleaning or something) so that I can do a GOOD job on this gravel? Its so bad that there is no way Im ever going to manage to get it clean a little at a time. Every time I do this so much gets stirred up so then of course I cant suck it up because its free floating UGH HELP PLEASE

 

[Corleone]

Ok, don't panic - from the sounds of it, this didn't take too long. You didn't use tap water, and it doesn't sound like the bacteria dried out entirely. You probably haven't wiped out your entire biofilter, but it's always a possibility that it was weakened. Mini-cycles sometimes happen following a big filter cleaning like this, but it shouldn't last too long. IIRC, you're only a few weeks out of your original cycle, so it might be a bit worse than in a mature tank, but it should be manageable. Water tests and water changes are in order - you'll be doing water changes for the gravel cleaning anyway.

You can put the fish in a bucket of tank water temporarily, if you want to do a better gravel cleaning. Without the fish in there, you can let the water drain pretty much right down, refill, and even do it again if necessary (Wasn't your tank quite high up, so your siphon drained faster than you could gravel vac?). Just turn your filter off first and leave the water in it, and you can drop the biowheel in the bucket with the fish to keep it wet.

 

[LionessN3cubs]

Ok, don't panic - from the sounds of it, this didn't take too long. You didn't use tap water, and it doesn't sound like the bacteria dried out entirely. You probably haven't wiped out your entire biofilter, but it's always a possibility that it was weakened. Mini-cycles sometimes happen following a big filter cleaning like this, but it shouldn't last too long. IIRC, you're only a few weeks out of your original cycle, so it might be a bit worse than in a mature tank, but it should be manageable. Water tests and water changes are in order - you'll be doing water changes for the gravel cleaning anyway.

You can put the fish in a bucket of tank water temporarily, if you want to do a better gravel cleaning. Without the fish in there, you can let the water drain pretty much right down, refill, and even do it again if necessary (Wasn't your tank quite high up, so your siphon drained faster than you could gravel vac?). Just turn your filter off first and leave the water in it, and you can drop the biowheel in the bucket with the fish to keep it wet.

Okay...I'll be doing all this later when I dont have cubs at my feet. Part of the reason I screwed up so bad was that my little one (2) was showering with daddy, fell and bumped his head and I had to go play nurse in the middle of all that. That said..no this was maybe over a period of 20 minutes and I KNOW nothing dried out or even came close at least. Since I've already done so much damage I might as well get a good cleaning in while Im already mini cycling UGH

 

[Miss Wiggle]

oooh lioness, you're not having a good time of it at the moment are you?

don't panic over a mini cycle just yet, obviously keep monitoring the readings but don't assume the worst, wait until you know what's going on before panicing.

def do a bit clean if you've stirred a load of muck up, as they said put the fish in a bucket and thoroughly clean out all the gravel.

I don't know what your routine is or anything, but there's been a few times you've said the cubs have got under your feet and distracted you when doing stuff with the tank havent there? Why don't you set aside a time each week to do the maintenance..... a time when the cubs aren't around or hubby can look after them and keep them out of your way. Best to do these things un-interrupted. Now I know things don't always work out like that every week but maybe it's something to strive for?!

 

[Corleone]

If nothing dried out, I don't think there's much to worry about, but like Miss Wiggle said, monitor your water stats and act accordingly. In such a short span of time, drying out is the main worry with your bacteria, they won't starve in 20 minutes.

 

[LionessN3cubs]

oooh lioness, you're not having a good time of it at the moment are you?

don't panic over a mini cycle just yet, obviously keep monitoring the readings but don't assume the worst, wait until you know what's going on before panicing.

def do a bit clean if you've stirred a load of muck up, as they said put the fish in a bucket and thoroughly clean out all the gravel.

I don't know what your routine is or anything, but there's been a few times you've said the cubs have got under your feet and distracted you when doing stuff with the tank havent there? Why don't you set aside a time each week to do the maintenance..... a time when the cubs aren't around or hubby can look after them and keep them out of your way. Best to do these things un-interrupted. Now I know things don't always work out like that every week but maybe it's something to strive for?!

yeahhhhhh well thats what I was trying to do. The baby was the only one here so I sent him to shower with daddy so I could get this done real quick like...and instead he gets a booboo and Im back on mom duty. Its just the way it is ::::weeping:::: working on a routine here but with special needs kids its a little more....touchy...than for others KWIM?

If nothing dried out, I don't think there's much to worry about, but like Miss Wiggle said, monitor your water stats and act accordingly. In such a short span of time, drying out is the main worry with your bacteria, they won't starve in 20 minutes.

unfortunatley I was already having a cycle problem before this...I had nitrites in the tank so its probably a good bet its going to cause even MORE problems that way.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeahhhhhh well thats what I was trying to do. The baby was the only one here so I sent him to shower with daddy so I could get this done real quick like...and instead he gets a booboo and Im back on mom duty. Its just the way it is ::::weeping:::: working on a routine here but with special needs kids its a little more....touchy...than for others KWIM?

i didn't realise one of them has special needs Lioness. Can totally understand.

 

[waterdrop]

Lioness,

It doesn't sound like your media ever was out of tank water and if you'll remember, I just went through the 24 hour thing where my power was out and I had 2 5-hour waits where no water was moving through my filter at all and the end result was that my populations and my filter were better than ever once it was back running. They are very sturdy bacteria.

Now the part I'm confused about though is where you say you ripped the filter apart and dumped it in tank water and some of it was rocks. This sounds confusing in that I can't tell if you somehow had aquarium gravel as a layer in the filter and then dumped it down into the gravel of the tank. Is that the case? That would be kind of bad in that it would now be mixed with the other gravel and you wouldn't be able to retrieve the gravel that had the higher bacteria content growing on it (gravel in a filter would have a lot more bacteria clinging to it because oxygenated water and ammonia would be constantly flowing past it in the filter.)

But any of the sponge pads or media that you can tell apart that went back into the filter should be fine and still have all of its bacteria.

Its interesting, this thread is very helpful in explaining some of the problems you've been having in that if the filter never had optimal types of media in it and its not an oversized filter anyway, then it makes more sense that it might be struggling a bit and also then you add to that that the gravel cleaning was not going well during that whole second phase of fishless cycling when gravel cleaning seems to help and it explains a lot. Ultimately this might be the key to us getting you cleared up and not having the nitrite problem any more!

Sorry for all your troubles! Really great how good you are at hanging in there with it all!
~~waterdrop~~

 

[LionessN3cubs]

Lioness,

It doesn't sound like your media ever was out of tank water and if you'll remember, I just went through the 24 hour thing where my power was out and I had 2 5-hour waits where no water was moving through my filter at all and the end result was that my populations and my filter were better than ever once it was back running. They are very sturdy bacteria.

Now the part I'm confused about though is where you say you ripped the filter apart and dumped it in tank water and some of it was rocks. This sounds confusing in that I can't tell if you somehow had aquarium gravel as a layer in the filter and then dumped it down into the gravel of the tank. Is that the case? That would be kind of bad in that it would now be mixed with the other gravel and you wouldn't be able to retrieve the gravel that had the higher bacteria content growing on it (gravel in a filter would have a lot more bacteria clinging to it because oxygenated water and ammonia would be constantly flowing past it in the filter.)

But any of the sponge pads or media that you can tell apart that went back into the filter should be fine and still have all of its bacteria.

Its interesting, this thread is very helpful in explaining some of the problems you've been having in that if the filter never had optimal types of media in it and its not an oversized filter anyway, then it makes more sense that it might be struggling a bit and also then you add to that that the gravel cleaning was not going well during that whole second phase of fishless cycling when gravel cleaning seems to help and it explains a lot. Ultimately this might be the key to us getting you cleared up and not having the nitrite problem any more!

Sorry for all your troubles! Really great how good you are at hanging in there with it all!
~~waterdrop~~

As far as the confusing parts lemme see if I can clarify LOL. Way back not far from the beginning of cycling I had gotten rocks from a mature tank (all the person was willing to part with) and I put a few into the tank itself, and a few into the filter box (HOB). When I couldnt get my biowheel to start turning again, I pulled the filter media out of the filter and gave it a little swish in the tank thinking maybe it was clogged and not allowing enough waterflow through. Then, when I tried to get the media back in, it wouldnt go in right. So I pulled the HOB off to check it out. As I was doing that...the baby fell in the shower and hit his head and came screaming...so I dropped everything in my hands into the tank. There were those rocks in there, which are now sitting at the bottom of my tank. Honestly, I know exactly which ones they are if you think its not already too late to put them back (we're talking a couple hours later now tho). When I was putting the thing back together, I didnt think about the rocks because I had the baby underfoot and just wanted to finish.

As far as not having optimal media..Im not sure what you mean. I have a HOB penguin mini biowheel that is supposed to be good up to 20 gallons I think it is. It has the media in it that it is supposed to, what I meant was that because of the rocks being in there at the bottom (I'd forgotten) the filter cartridge wasint in exactly right.

Turned out that what made my biowheel not start spinning was that I hadn't yet topped the tank level up to full and my filter is very picky about that..the biowheel WONT spin under a certain water level..but I had forgotten that.

Honestly what concerns me that may have messed things up is first of all...I swished my filter media..both the insert and the biowheel both and may have dislodged my bacterias. 2ndly now I know those rocks being missing might be a problem. And worst of all...I poured MANY cups of tank water into the filter...over both types of media...trying to get the wheel moving. That probably washed away a GOOD bit of my bacteria if nothing else I screwed up today did. I was just so trying to hurry up and finish because of the baby that I didnt stop to think about it.


Think its too late to put those rocks back in? Eh...Imma do it anyway just in case

 

[Corleone]

Honestly what concerns me that may have messed things up is first of all...I swished my filter media..both the insert and the biowheel both and may have dislodged my bacterias.

Since it was in tank water, I wouldn't worry. I swish my media at least once a month without a blip.

2ndly now I know those rocks being missing might be a problem. And worst of all...I poured MANY cups of tank water into the filter...over both types of media...trying to get the wheel moving. That probably washed away a GOOD bit of my bacteria if nothing else I screwed up today did. I was just so trying to hurry up and finish because of the baby that I didnt stop to think about it.

The rocks probably won't be a problem long-term, but short term, since you weren't too far out of your cycle, the bacteria that had colonized them may be a necessary part of the biofilter. Pouring the water into the filter probably wasn't a problem, either - I have to do this every time I clean a filter as well.

Think its too late to put those rocks back in? Eh...Imma do it anyway just in case

Probably not too late, since you know which ones they were. They're still in tank water, so the bacteria won't die off very quickly, though if you leave it for several days, there won't be much left on the rocks as they won't get as much food on the gravel as they would in the filter. Once the tank stay stable for a few weeks to a month, you shouldn't need them in there anymore.


Again, don't panic - even with all the confusion that happened in the midst of this, nothing you did constitutes a potential disaster. In fact, dropping everything in the tank could well have saved you - had you dropped them on a table, things could be much worsee. Just be prepared for a minicycle and some more water changes, but I don't think your fish are in any serious danger for it.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

I agree with Corleone, don't think there's any need for a massive panic.

get the rocks back in if you know which ones they are and just keep monitoring over the next few days and see how things pan out.

 

[waterdrop]

OK, thanks for the explanation Lioness,

Now I realize that the rocks that were in the filter were the aquarium gravel you got from someone else with a hope that it would do the job of "mature media" (If the gravel was on the bottom of the other person's mature tank then it would potentially have a marginal amount of good bacteria. If that gravel was in the other person't filter then it would have more and be like mature media.) I agree with Corleon and MW that it wouldn't hurt to add them back in.

I think the reason one sees filter media like ceramic rings, ceramic pebbles and sponge is that over time people have slowly worked toward more and more optimal surfaces for growing the good bacteria. While gravel has a rougher surface than some other things, it does not usually have small pores like these ceramics. I believe the small pores are optimal (probably because in the early stages of colony growth they provide better anchors for the bacteria.)

[Its an interesting thing (hardware forum topic type thing) to think about sand beds vs gravel beds vs modern ceramics vs sponges etc. as they all have their pros and cons and places in the whole media topic, but that's off-topic from your problem, so I'll try to make myself shut up, lol.]

Pouring tank water over your media repeatedly shouldn't hurt anything at all. That's what the internal pump of your HOB is constantly doing, so when the pump is stopped, that is basically a good thing from the point of view of the bacteria. Your image of the bacteria may still of things that are fairly loose, which would be inaccurate I think... perhaps better to think of them as a "stubborn stain" on the media... you could rub some of them (and their biofilm) off if you rubbed the media with your fingers, but the "anchor" bacteria would still stubbornly be stuck to the media and would persist.

Anyway, I agree with the others and by now you know the actions to take quite well like the rest of us. Do your tests to get a feel what type of mini-cycle, if any, that you have set off. Adjust your water changes to keep things below 0.25 levels to keep the fish happy... all that stuff. Several days of gravel cleanings and water changings should be heading you in the right direction I think.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[LionessN3cubs]

well so far so good...no nitrites or ammonia showing up yet.

Since last week I'd been getting nitrites showing 2 days after a water change so we'll see what happens there. There isn't any ammonia which tells me my Abacs are okay as heavily stocked as I am there would be ammonia by now if I'd hurt them.

I didnt get a chance to do the good cleaning like I wanted to last night after the kids went to bed because quite frankly...I was too exhausted to stay up. I put them to bed and dragged myself to bed 20 minutes later LOL. I AM going to see if hubby will take the baby outside to play for a bit before he goes to work so that I can get this done while my 2 older ones are at Kid College this week. I need to get this water under control because my platy is pregnant ....again...and getting bigger by the day!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

glad ammonia and nitrite are holding out at 0

fingers crossed

 

[waterdrop]

sounds like your bacteria rather liked the roller coaster