Difficulty Doing Water Changes

[kcalbat]

the water that comes from my tap is at pH 7.2. The water in my tank runs a steady 8.4. I was told (as a theory) that the water from my tap is unoxygenated so when i put the water in my very airated tank the pH rises (?)

So..if i wanted to do a water change...i need to let a few buckets or one big bucket of water to sit and run a bubble stone or an airline into the water to have the pH change to the same pH as my tank.

This is a problem because how to i set the temperature to what is in my tank if the water has to sit for a day. The water temp is 76 F. Its the start of winter here and my house is a big ice cube one day, warm the next, and cool the next!

It was also suggested to do a small water change it it wont effect the water much. But i did a 10% water change and now my fish seem very stressed. (they are swimming funny and disorganized. (then again this could be because the tank is cycling.))

Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks

 

[mark.w.jones]

hm, pH getting higher. Havnt had that before. It's most likely that the rise in pH is due to your substrate, ornaments of any other rocks you have for decoration. Possibly try removing these. However, the fact that your tank is cycling may also have something to do with this.

If you want to lower pH then Id try adding some bogwood / mopani wood. The wood may leach tannins (a really brown stain in your water) for a while it is these tanins that are acidic so will help lower your pH slightly. Search the forum for ways to treat the wood b4 adding to your tank.

When doing a cycle with fish you need to do small water changes every other day in order to keep ammonia and nitrite levels down whilst waiting for your bacteria to grow in your filter. Ammonia and nitrite are really bad for fish which is why they may be behaving in the way they are. Please consider fishless cycling if you start up another tank.

To warm your water up there are a no. of options. Boiling water from kettle to mix with cold water. Getting a second cheap heater to stick in bucket. Heating water up in big squash bottle in your microwave (my preferred option)

 

[kcalbat]

i wanted to do a fishless cycle but those fish came from a tank of my in laws that had sprung a leak so we had to put the fish in a bucket for a while until we got this new tank and honestly had no choice but to cycle the tank with them. (its winter time here so the bucket of water would get real cold...water changes were hectic...it was just a bad situation.)

Anyhow...how much will the bogwood lower the pH. Is it worth it?

I figured it might be the ornaments or fake plants, maybe the new gravel...But its kind of frustrating that i need to remove them, should i wait until the tank is finished cycling before removing them? (in case its the cycling process thats raising the pH)

Maybe this is another reason to switch to live plants. Ive been thinking hard about doing that.

The main problem with the water changes is that ill be pouring water from my tap that has a low 7.2 ph into my tank that has a very high 8.4.

thanks much for your help. Its confirmed that i really should switch to live plants.

 

[mark.w.jones]

Anyhow...how much will the bogwood lower the pH. Is it worth it?

How long is a very long piece of string? Who knows. It can only help. Whilst it is annoying having to remove ornaments etc. it might help solve your problem. Try taking out all ornaments 1st as that should be easier and leave things for a few weeks. See if that helps to lower you pH.

If not, Im afraid its the gravel that's the problem.

It won't be the cycling processes that's causing pH problems so you can exclude that.

Was it my stunning, planted tank that convinced you to chnge to live plants AS long as you buy the right ones a planted tank is a doddle really. Check out this site: http/www.plantgeek.net/plantguide.php You can search for plants by difficulty to grow. Then buy them online from: http/www.aquaticplants.eu.com/ As long as you get easy to grow stuff, java ferns, anubis sp., java moss, thai onions, straight vallis etc. you wont need any major fertilisers or CO2 injection.

 

[pica_nuttalli]

so long as you're doing lots of small (10-20%) water changes on a frequent basis, i wouldn't worry too much about the pH fluctuations. like jonsey said, rising pH is generally due to minerals being leached into the water column by a decorative element. the lower pH water will actually stimulate the minerals to leach faster, so it should balance back out at 8.4 pretty quickly. just try to avoid any water changes over 20%.

if you'd like us to help you figure out what's making your pH so high, you can post a picture of your tank and we can take a look at it. do you know what kind of fish you have?

 

[xoedusk]

I was told (as a theory) that the water from my tap is unoxygenated so when i put the water in my very airated tank the pH rises (?)

Water from the tap is not unoxygenated. Your source is wrong.

So..if i wanted to do a water change...i need to let a few buckets or one big bucket of water to sit and run a bubble stone or an airline into the water to have the pH change to the same pH as my tank.

You can try this if you want, but I doubt the pH will go up. Bad chemistry there.

It was also suggested to do a small water change it it wont effect the water much. But i did a 10% water change and now my fish seem very stressed. (they are swimming funny and disorganized. (then again this could be because the tank is cycling.))

A smaller water change certainly will have a smaller affect upon your tank/fish than a larger one. Are you decholorinating the water that you are adding to the tank? What is the ammonia/nitrite reading of your tap water?

 

[Creature Seeker]

I wouldn't use bogwood when cycling. If your PH goes to low the cycle crashes, which actually happened to my cycle.

...

 

[kcalbat]

Ok im back.

I do eventually want to get bogwood so i can wait after my tank cycles.


I did some process of elimination starting with the simplest measure to try and figure this out. Besides i didnt want to disturb my fish yet by removing all the ornaments. I began with setting out two buckets of water one by itself and the other with an airline in it. I tested the pH when i filled the buckets up (7.2). The next morning i tested both water buckets and both were 8.4. Whether or not the unoxygenated theory is false...something changes the water once its out of the tap. not bad chemistry, odd chemistry!

Im just really baffled as to why tho! I was really counting on that low pH to have fish ive never been able to keep!

So im going to assume this is not because of my ornaments...so i can now do water changes...it just takes longer and more patience...but AAAARRRGGG its so frustrating.

no readings on my tap...i do dechlorinate before i pour the water in my tank.

Of course jonesy it was your awesome planted tank that inspired me to make the switch. Im waiting for my tank to cycle first..thank for the site. I need lots of research.

pica i currently have 5 harlequin rasboras (why im cycling with these fish is a long story...few post down)

thanks bunches for ur help!

 

[xoedusk]

Ok im back.

I do eventually want to get bogwood so i can wait after my tank cycles.


I did some process of elimination starting with the simplest measure to try and figure this out. Besides i didnt want to disturb my fish yet by removing all the ornaments. I began with setting out two buckets of water one by itself and the other with an airline in it. I tested the pH when i filled the buckets up (7.2). The next morning i tested both water buckets and both were 8.4. Whether or not the unoxygenated theory is false...something changes the water once its out of the tap. not bad chemistry, odd chemistry!

Im just really baffled as to why tho! I was really counting on that low pH to have fish ive never been able to keep!

So im going to assume this is not because of my ornaments...so i can now do water changes...it just takes longer and more patience...but AAAARRRGGG its so frustrating.

no readings on my tap...i do dechlorinate before i pour the water in my tank.

Of course jonesy it was your awesome planted tank that inspired me to make the switch. Im waiting for my tank to cycle first..thank for the site. I need lots of research.

pica i currently have 5 harlequin rasboras (why im cycling with these fish is a long story...few post down)

thanks bunches for ur help!

I have heard of pH changing after 24 hours of letting tap water sit. I can't remember if it goes up or down. Try a search on it! It has something to do with carbonates? I'm sure someone can remember.

 

[Nerwign]

In the topic on fishless cycling it states that there is no reason to test your pH during the cycle because it will increase.

Why wouldn't this be the case with a fished cycle adding ammonia to the environment?

I say do frequent small water changes. If your fish are freaked out afterwards, do not do more massive water changes. That will likely make them more stressed.

Make sure the water going into the tank is the same temperature (use your aquarium thermometer to test before you pour it in). Sudden changes (even a few degrees) can be very stressful. Much more so than a gradual change of several degrees.

-Nerwign

 

[Bignose]

Many times the water companies intentionally dissolve large amounts of CO2 in the water so that mineral deposits in the lines are lessoned. Just like the planted tanks, this extra CO2 atrificlaly lowers the pH. It has nothing to do with oxygen levels (the water from the tap will have a fair amount of oxygen). Leave a cup sit out overnight, and test that water. Compare that with your tank.

To wit, my water tests at 7.2 to 7.4 straight from the tap but my tanks always test at 8.2 to 8.4.

If your tap water after sitting out is still low, then you can look into what rocks or other things you your tank may be causing higher pH, but please do the 24 our test first.

Finally, a pH of 8.4 is more than adequate for a large variaety of fish. This is where research comes in, but quite a lot of fish will live long, happy, healthy lives in that water.

Regarding water changes while cycling -- if the ammonia and nitrite levels get too high, it is far more important to do a large water change to lower the pollution levels. Fish can adapt to a pH change in a matter of minutes, but if you leave them in ammonia too long, their immune systems could be permantly damaged, leading to a much greater susecptibility to disease in their lives. Just be sure to match the temperatures as best you can, and if you have been using the same tap water all along the hardness of the water will be the same, you can do a fairly large water change if necessary to get the pollution levels lowered. Also, doing water changes will not slow down the process of cycling. So long as more ammonia is being produced by the fish than the bacteria can process, more bacteria will grow. It doesn't matter what the immediate "snapshot" level of ammonia is, all that matters is the rates. The rate of ammonia consumption by the bacteria and the rate of ammonia production by fish. So, do those water changes to keep the levels low!

In the best case, you could keep a tub of water that has sat out overnight so the pH will be the same, then you could do a very large water change with all the stats the same.

In my opinion, the stress of doing a water change is much less then the stress of trying to live in high pollution levels. Just think of it this way, after undergoing the stress of a large water change, at least the fish gets clean new water. The stress of the ammonia will not go away for quite some time.

 

[kcalbat]

thanks for all the information, it helps alot.

Never knew water changes would ever become this ...odd..haha.

I did test the waters after a day and the pH rose to 8.4 from 7.2 so now i can do my water changes without stressing my fish out too bad.

The only issue im having is matching the temperature of the water to the tank. Im thinking about buying a cheap water heater, but if any of you have better ideas i would love to hear it!

ok, just a thought. If i do plant my tank and use CO2, and put bogwood in the tank...would it lower my pH ? IF it only lowers it by .5 or something like that then i might as well keep my tank the way it is. Will it be a significant change though?

Also...for those with planted tanks, if the pH that comes from your tap higher than that of your tank how to you adjust it for water changes?

thanks again.