Did I Clean My Filter Too Much?

[always4lora]

That is correct. It should be cleaned weekly with your WC.
Does this filter rely on the sponge as the only means of filtration? Or is there a bio media seciin (holding ceramics or gravel usually).

If its just the sponge, you could have lost some bacteria in the mechanical transfer while cleaning the sponge, however, with Wc and a couple of days, this will correct itself. If the water was not dechlorinted (ie. Tap water) then theres a chance a signjfucant ammount was lost. But you said it was tank water, so I doubt it.

Is this your only filter on the tank?

thank you bitteraspects.
it's a simple fluval sponge filter, no other media.
no chance of contact with chlorinated water.
yes, the only filter in the tank.

i guess what i'm curious about is the extent of adherence of the bacteria to the sponge. you gave a solid opinion. thanks.

though i would like to point out the obviously contradicting opinions on filter cleaning.
clean every week vs. don't touch it.....i mean someone's got it all wrong.

that does make me question the usefulness and reliability of the advise dispensed in these forums, no offense to anyone particular. but what is a newbie supposed to make of it?

The advise on this forums is generally spot on , some stuff peoples opionions will differ, but without knowing what filter etc you're using then we can't make a good guess at if you cause damage with the bacteria, E.G Externals have soo much media normally that you don't need to clean oftern ,if you're heavily stocked and running an internal then you may need to clean it more regually.

I run 2 filters on each tank , this is always the best option

 

[ian]

That is correct. It should be cleaned weekly with your WC.
Does this filter rely on the sponge as the only means of filtration? Or is there a bio media seciin (holding ceramics or gravel usually).

If its just the sponge, you could have lost some bacteria in the mechanical transfer while cleaning the sponge, however, with Wc and a couple of days, this will correct itself. If the water was not dechlorinted (ie. Tap water) then theres a chance a signjfucant ammount was lost. But you said it was tank water, so I doubt it.

Is this your only filter on the tank?

thank you bitteraspects.
it's a simple fluval sponge filter, no other media.
no chance of contact with chlorinated water.
yes, the only filter in the tank.

i guess what i'm curious about is the extent of adherence of the bacteria to the sponge. you gave a solid opinion. thanks.

though i would like to point out the obviously contradicting opinions on filter cleaning.
clean every week vs. don't touch it.....i mean someone's got it all wrong.

that does make me question the usefulness and reliability of the advise dispensed in these forums, no offense to anyone particular. but what is a newbie supposed to make of it?

no ones got it wrong, what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. I clean my filter sponges every month. There you go another conflicting piece of evidence in the wide world of fish keeping.

 

[Assaye]

That is correct. It should be cleaned weekly with your WC.

Clearly this statement is in conflict to what the rest of us are saying.

The reason we advocate minimal filter maintainence is because of the risk of adversly affecting the bacterial colonies in the filter.

Why do you think we should clean the filter weekly?

IMO, the issue isn't really whether it is cleaned but how vigorously. It's easier not to over clean if you only clean when the filter's function is impared.

 

[Truck]

Pipe dream...I wouldn't worry, there are still millions of bacteria left on the sponge, and bacteria can divide into 2 every 20 minutes, obviously not all of them make it so it will only be a day or so before the filter has caught up again, I really wouldn't worry about it. As for cleaning the filter, do it when you feel necessary, I do my external when flow drops, and my internals weekly, do what works for you.

 

[Squid]

PipeDream

I guess how often you clean the filter depends on the filter. My old internal Juwel Rio Sponge filter needed cleaning all the time. To be honest it was rubbish and cause me all sorts of problems. My eheim filter needs cleaning/maintenance really infrequently. I change the white filter more frequently, but there is a blue filter that can just be cleaned/squeezed too. I think I can get away with squeezing this one a fair bit because there are two more big containers full of balls an tubes with masses of surface area for bacteria. To wash them I literally give them a good dunking up and down in the tank water until they look cleaner.

I am not familiar with your filter, so i guess it depends on how much of the sponge you squeezed a number of times acts as a percentage of your filtration. Now this next bit is just my opinion and not based upon anything other than that, but.... People have been known to squeeze sponge filters over new filters to help seed them with bacteria (as you probably know, so apologies if this is a case of grannies and eggs etc..), therefore if the act of squeezing the filter transfers/expels bacteria, then over squeezing/rinsing would make me believe that you may loose a fair bit. so really, it's back to how much of your filtration this sponge provided.

Then, I guess you have a few options

- don't go away for 2 weeks. (yeah right i hear you say) - im kidding here
- Change to a better external filter (i love my eheim - works well for lazy people like me)
- get rid of the poop machine as you are - although is he munching on a good bunch of algae for you!!

One other thought. I have been told in the past that overdosing on things like aquasafe (dechlorinator stuff) can make the fish a little dozey or dopey. Is there any chance that as you did a bigger water change than normal that you overdosed by mistake??

Hope that helps, or at worst doesn't confuse matters. Next step some test i guess.. would be interested to see what you find.

I also agree with the last post. If this was a mature tank, hopefully this will just be a minicycle at worst and the bacteria will multiply quick enough to right the water and fish before any lasting harm is done.

Best of luck with it all.

Cheers,
Squid

 

[bitteraspects]

That is correct. It should be cleaned weekly with your WC.

Clearly this statement is in conflict to what the rest of us are saying.

The reason we advocate minimal filter maintainence is because of the risk of adversly affecting the bacterial colonies in the filter.

Why do you think we should clean the filter weekly?

IMO, the issue isn't really whether it is cleaned but how vigorously. It's easier not to over clean if you only clean when the filter's function is impared.

By the time the "filters function is impared" (impaired) its already too late. the resistance caused by a clogged sponge puts a strain in the impeller and motor. This ultimately leads to premature equipment failure.(and people wp why their canisters leak or stop working. HA). then there's the issue of bypass. Once the sponge is clogged, the mechanical function of the filter is further compromised.
Do a little experiment. Take your mech filter out after 1week of service and squeeze it out in a bucket of clean tank water. That will show you wht is building up in your sponge. Now multiply that by 24(for the people suggesting that it need only be done after 6months).

I think the better question is, "why not clean it during your weekly WC?". You're already cleaning he tank, why wouldn't you take an extra 3minutes out of your day to give the sponge a couple of squeezes and remove any waste accumulated therein.
Remember. Your fish rely solely on you to provide their care. If tht isn't worth 3 minutes of your time each week, maybe a pet rock would be more suited to your schedule.

If done properly, there is no risk in cleaning your filter weekly, or more often than that if you feel so compelled. You are at the same "risk of adversly (adversely) affecting the bacterial colonies in the filter" no matter how often you clean it. To suggest that as a reason not to conduct regular cleanings is laughable at best.

 

[NinjaSmurf]

Totally agree. I have a thirty gallon with a bristlenose, four female bettas, and four ghost shrimp. I just did a water change after having the tank set up for a week or so (had to move) and rinsed the filter cart. out in the old tank water. The water turned instantly dark brown, plus I had to wipe off the waterfall spout of the filter to get the gunk off. This is after a weeks time of doing it, and with low stocking.

I can't imagine what it would look like after more than a few weeks, and letting it go till its impaired is insane considering the sheer amount of water that it is supposed to pump. My filter is for up to forty gallons, if it's impaired that means the flow is down to a ridiculously small amount. And you can collapse a tank by not cleaning the filter out, because the eventually the bacteria will not be able to keep up, which is another reason we say don't overstock.

Not to mention, exactly how do you think that bacteria in the filter does its job? It has to have the water going through it, thus why cycling, gph, bacteria colonies, and the like are so important. Without a working filter, you can do all the water changes you want, you might as well keep them in a bowl, it's exactly the same thing, just bigger. There is a reason we cycle, why we keep our filter media wet when moving a tank. It's all about the filter, and the wonderful bacteria it holds.

 

[erk628]

That is correct. It should be cleaned weekly with your WC.

Clearly this statement is in conflict to what the rest of us are saying.

The reason we advocate minimal filter maintainence is because of the risk of adversly affecting the bacterial colonies in the filter.

Why do you think we should clean the filter weekly?

IMO, the issue isn't really whether it is cleaned but how vigorously. It's easier not to over clean if you only clean when the filter's function is impared.

By the time the "filters function is impared" (impaired) its already too late. the resistance caused by a clogged sponge puts a strain in the impeller and motor. This ultimately leads to premature equipment failure.(and people wp why their canisters leak or stop working. HA). then there's the issue of bypass. Once the sponge is clogged, the mechanical function of the filter is further compromised.
Do a little experiment. Take your mech filter out after 1week of service and squeeze it out in a bucket of clean tank water. That will show you wht is building up in your sponge. Now multiply that by 24(for the people suggesting that it need only be done after 6months).

I think the better question is, "why not clean it during your weekly WC?". You're already cleaning he tank, why wouldn't you take an extra 3minutes out of your day to give the sponge a couple of squeezes and remove any waste accumulated therein.
Remember. Your fish rely solely on you to provide their care. If tht isn't worth 3 minutes of your time each week, maybe a pet rock would be more suited to your schedule.

If done properly, there is no risk in cleaning your filter weekly, or more often than that if you feel so compelled. You are at the same "risk of adversly (adversely) affecting the bacterial colonies in the filter" no matter how often you clean it. To suggest that as a reason not to conduct regular cleanings is laughable at best.

Are you guys brothers or something because your a lot a like? Anyways what works for one person doesnt mean it will work for another. What I would do is get a test kit obviously and keep doing what your doing and after doing it test your water. If the stats are not right then change what your doing. If there right where they should be keep doing what your doing.

 

[Assaye]

That is correct. It should be cleaned weekly with your WC.

Clearly this statement is in conflict to what the rest of us are saying.

The reason we advocate minimal filter maintainence is because of the risk of adversly affecting the bacterial colonies in the filter.

Why do you think we should clean the filter weekly?

IMO, the issue isn't really whether it is cleaned but how vigorously. It's easier not to over clean if you only clean when the filter's function is impared.

By the time the "filters function is impared" (impaired) its already too late. the resistance caused by a clogged sponge puts a strain in the impeller and motor. This ultimately leads to premature equipment failure.(and people wp why their canisters leak or stop working. HA). then there's the issue of bypass. Once the sponge is clogged, the mechanical function of the filter is further compromised.
Do a little experiment. Take your mech filter out after 1week of service and squeeze it out in a bucket of clean tank water. That will show you wht is building up in your sponge. Now multiply that by 24(for the people suggesting that it need only be done after 6months).

I think the better question is, "why not clean it during your weekly WC?". You're already cleaning he tank, why wouldn't you take an extra 3minutes out of your day to give the sponge a couple of squeezes and remove any waste accumulated therein.
Remember. Your fish rely solely on you to provide their care. If tht isn't worth 3 minutes of your time each week, maybe a pet rock would be more suited to your schedule.

If done properly, there is no risk in cleaning your filter weekly, or more often than that if you feel so compelled. You are at the same "risk of adversly (adversely) affecting the bacterial colonies in the filter" no matter how often you clean it. To suggest that as a reason not to conduct regular cleanings is laughable at best.

Easy now, I wasn't attacking you!

It's not a matter of time, for me. I know about how long it takes my sponges to get too gunky to work properly so I clean it a week or two in advance. Saves the equipment and reduces the number of times I put the bacteria at risk.

Why risk a mini-cycle weekly when just knowing your tanks and equipment would allow you to clean sponges when they need it, rather than constantly as a precaution. I very much doubt my filter is going to be hugely adversly affected by having slightly reduced flowrate for a maximum of 12 hours (which is as long as it ever goes between my tanks being checked, unless I am away for a few days at which point I'll always clean the sponges before I go).

You might as well say "why bother having a test kit. Not having one saves money and as long as you do loads of water changes you'll always dilute any ammonia that happens to be present". Erm, no. We buy test kits, understand out tanks and do water changes when we need to. Same with filter maintainence. It isn't a matter of having a firm schedule (be it weekly or 6 monthly). It's a matter of understanding your tank and doing what you need to do to keep all your livestock healthy.

So perhaps you need to get off your high horse and stop suggesting that because I don't do weekly filter maintainence irrespective of need, I should be keeping rocks as pets. I'm not an idiot and my fish come first. You do what works for you and I do what works for me. Geez, it's not like I'm advocating not doing water tests or fish-in cycles without water changes. Go tell the newbies with over stocked tanks and dying fish to get a pet rock.

Thanks for correcting my spelling. It's pretty patronising, you know? We all have typos occasionally.

 

[bitteraspects]

Easy now, I wasn't attacking you!

It's not a matter of time, for me. I know about how long it takes my sponges to get too gunky to work properly so I clean it a week or two in advance. Saves the equipment and reduces the number of times I put the bacteria at risk.

Why risk a mini-cycle weekly when just knowing your tanks and equipment would allow you to clean sponges when they need it, rather than constantly as a precaution. I very much doubt my filter is going to be hugely adversly affected by having slightly reduced flowrate for a maximum of 12 hours (which is as long as it ever goes between my tanks being checked, unless I am away for a few days at which point I'll always clean the sponges before I go).

You might as well say "why bother having a test kit. Not having one saves money and as long as you do loads of water changes you'll always dilute any ammonia that happens to be present". Erm, no. We buy test kits, understand out tanks and do water changes when we need to. Same with filter maintainence. It isn't a matter of having a firm schedule (be it weekly or 6 monthly). It's a matter of understanding your tank and doing what you need to do to keep all your livestock healthy.

So perhaps you need to get off your high horse and stop suggesting that because I don't do weekly filter maintainence irrespective of need, I should be keeping rocks as pets. I'm not an idiot and my fish come first. You do what works for you and I do what works for me. Geez, it's not like I'm advocating not doing water tests or fish-in cycles without water changes. Go tell the newbies with over stocked tanks and dying fish to get a pet rock.

Thanks for correcting my spelling. It's pretty patronising, you know? We all have typos occasionally.

clearly reading comprehension is not your strong point. allow me to break it down further for you.

properly doing weekly filter cleanings puts ABSOLUTELY NO RISK on losing your bacteria and causing a mini cycle.
hell, cleaning your filter DAILY, if done properly, PUTS ABSOLUTELY NO RISK on losing bacteria and causing a mini cycle.

in fact, if you only clean your filter once every 6mo, and you dont do it properly, not only will you kill the bacteria, but you will have 6mo worth of detritus in your canister and tank which will cause a toxic and possibly fatal ammonia spike almost instantly.

furthermore, ammonia isn't the only thing accumulating in your tank.
fish release hormones that cause stunted growth.
dissolved solids effect your PH.
and on and on and on...


clearly you dont understand your tank as well as you believe you do.

enjoy your rock.

 

[Pipe Dream]

well good morning everyone. it's interesting to see how this debate has evolved.

i was beginning to feel weird for thinking a weekly filter cleaning is wrong, but from what\s been said it seems like my gut feeling was right. i certainly think that the voiced arguments FOR weekly squeeze sound a lot more convincing than those AGAINST it.

i especially doubt assay's claim that the poop is somehow 'detoxified' a thus risk free.


@Squid
thanks, and i agree with most of what you said, however i don't think i need to change my filter (Fluval 3plus). the fact that the sponge is full of crap is in my opinion a good thing, it just means the filter is doing it's job, wouldn't you say.

now, you mentioned the DECHLORINATOR and i think you may have something there.
i actually DID do a massive water change, bigger than ever before, as i was gone for 2 weeks. and the thing about the dechlorinator is, that i'm supoosed to be using 10ml per 40 liters. my bucket is 10 liters, so i should be using 2.5ml per bucket, however 2.5ml is such a tiny amount that i almost always put in an amount closer to like 4-5ml. it never caused any problems, but then again, i never did such a big WC. i actually tried to find something on the potential toxicity of these dechlorinators, but couldn't find anything.

 

[always4lora]

My water stats are fine on a 6 monthly basis and i do know how to clean a filter out properly, never had any issues. the filters still work and none of my fish have died after my fish week of fish keeping or so when i didnt know about the cycle etc.
I do weekly water changes of around 50% as it's quite a heavily planted tank and im using ferts etc and the stat's on the water are fine.

As for the stunted growth due to hormones do you have any scientific proof of this? if not then it's just your opinion over someone elses.(don;t mean for this bit to sound arsy , id genuilly like to read as it's much debated)


Pipe Dream you can just declorinate in one go if you're worried about overdosing, fill the tank and then put the required declorinator in, it will kill the clorine straight away.

 

[bitteraspects]

As for the stunted growth due to hormones do you have any scientific proof of this? if not then it's just your opinion over someone elses.(don;t mean for this bit to sound arsy , id genuilly like to read as it's much debated)

absolutely. feel free to do a search on fish's "GH hormone", im sure you will come up with lots of information.

http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/...servation/fish-populations/fish-stunting1.htm
http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/main-...one-relative-stunting-crowded-conditions.html

also, you could look for some books at the library.
"The physiology of fishes" By David Hudson Evans has lots of comprehensive information about fish stunting

 

[Pipe Dream]

Pipe Dream you can just declorinate in one go if you're worried about overdosing, fill the tank and then put the required declorinator in, it will kill the clorine straight away.

that doesnt sound right. putting a chlorine-containing water in the tank?? i think the damage to some components of the tank can be done almost instantaneously, and adding dechlorinator after the fact will not likely reverse it. also, before the treatment dissolves some fish may be exposed to large concentrations of it - if they swim right into it, which may kill them.

also, it's a lot easier to stir the treatment in the bucket under running water, than putting it into the tank and hope the filter movement will stir it. some parts of the tank may be stuck with the chlorinated water for hours before the treatment reached all parts of the tank.

 

[always4lora]

Pipe Dream you can just declorinate in one go if you're worried about overdosing, fill the tank and then put the required declorinator in, it will kill the clorine straight away.

that doesnt sound right. putting a chlorine-containing water in the tank?? i think the damage to some components of the tank can be done almost instantaneously, and adding dechlorinator after the fact will not likely reverse it. also, before the treatment dissolves some fish may be exposed to large concentrations of it - if they swim right into it, which may kill them.

also, it's a lot easier to stir the treatment in the bucket under running water, than putting it into the tank and hope the filter movement will stir it. some parts of the tank may be stuck with the chlorinated water for hours before the treatment reached all parts of the tank.

What components? dechlor doesn't harm fish as long it's not over dosed greatly. Just pour it in near the outtake to the filter and if you really want stick your hand in to help mix it. And like i said dechlor kills the chlorine straight away so nothing to wurry about.