Dead Platy - Sudden Death And Erratic Swimming

[monkeyhanger]

One of our Platys died yesterday, after developing difficulty swimming over the space of around 4 hours. I have 8 other Platys, and they're all fine.

The Platy in question is a translucent lemon colour with black stripes on the outer edges of the tail (not sure what variety it is).

It firstly appeared to be breathing heavily, with lots of gulping and gill movement, then it couldn't stabilise itself hoizontally, and had the tail end pointing downwards, like it's back end was dragging it down. When it tried to swim, it was powering upwards for a few seconds, but that seemed like an incredible effort for the fish. It ended up taking shelter in the top corner, but looked physically tired.

It had a few more movement spurts for a few hours, but wanted to be at the tank's surface. When it was almost dead my betta brushed by it a few times (presumably to test the platy's reaction and see if it was therefore too weak to defend itself), but the other platys crowded out the betta everytime it came in close.

After 3 hours strugging to swim, it dropped lifeless onto a rock in the tank. There was no physical damage to the fish, and although it was female, it was slim and definitely not noticeably pregnant.

Water stats are:

pH = 7.6
Ammonia = 0ppm
Nitrite = 0ppm
Nitrate = 5ppm

Always at those levels, as tested with API liquid master kit.

I'm thinking swim bladder - any suggestions? Could the cause of death be contagious?

 

[monkeyhanger]

Forgot to say - the dead fish is just over a week old (a week in my tank, not literally a 1 week old fry), and is full size expected for a Platy female.

 

[Curiosity101]

What is the tank size, and the other inhabitants?
Also what other fish were introduced with the platy?
How long has the tank been established, and how long had it been since other fish were introduced before the platy.

 

[monkeyhanger]

What is the tank size, and the other inhabitants?
Also what other fish were introduced with the platy?
How long has the tank been established, and how long had it been since other fish were introduced before the platy.

It's a 140L tank (physical fill of 100L of water). The tank is 4 months old and has been stable in water parameters for over 2 months.

Other inhabitants are 8 other Platys of various colours, 1 very placid but curious Betta (was in a community tank without problems when I got him), 4 Cory Sterbai, 6 Glass Bloodfin Tetras. All fish except 2 other Platy were in the tank around a month before the dead Platy. The dead platy was one of 3 platys introduced last weekend, and the other 2 are fine.

Betta was one of the last additions, so he's never felt that the tank was all his.
With every addition of fish, I put Melafix and Pimafix in at half dose, daily, for 4 days.

There is a 30% water change every week. They get fed once a day, as this helps keep the algae under control. They get Aquarian tropical flakes, and the Corys get a Catfish tablet beween them daily. Once a week they get bloodworm as a treat. They all got bloodworm the day before the death - is this coincidence?

 

[Curiosity101]

Personally I'm not an expert, I was just asking some of the 'clever' people will ask lol.

Also, any signs of bloating or white/clear stringy poo? If it was the bloodworm it may well have caused either of those two symptoms.
Any other physical signs? And are all the other fish ok?
I find it hard to believe it was the bloodworm if you've only had the one death, although you're always risking introducing parasites when you feed live foods.

Like I said, I'm far from an expert. But when they show up they'll already have most of the information they'll need.

Btw, it's not recommended you treat fish unless there is actually something wrong with them... If you give them a good checking over at the lfs then you should be able to identify alot of illnesses (if any) before you bring them home anyways. It's expensive and unnecessary treating with melafix and primafix IMO, though I would take others advice over mine if they don't agree.

 

[monkeyhanger]

Personally I'm not an expert, I was just asking some of the 'clever' people will ask lol.

Also, any signs of bloating or white/clear stringy poo? If it was the bloodworm it may well have caused either of those two symptoms.
Any other physical signs? And are all the other fish ok?
I find it hard to believe it was the bloodworm if you've only had the one death, although you're always risking introducing parasites when you feed live foods.

Like I said, I'm far from an expert. But when they show up they'll already have most of the information they'll need.

The bloodworms were the frozen stuff - supposedly parasite free (irradiated?). From what I can find out, a lack of stability when all the fins are functioning correctly would seem to be a swim bladder problem, but as i'm no expert - that's why im asking the question.

Don't think it was the bloodworms. Fish wasn't bloated - one of my slimmer platys infact (one of the few who didn't look pregnant, and no other physical damage or funny behaviour prior to the stability struggles.

 

[WILDER]

It sounds like swim bladder to me.
Fish will be unalbe to maintain balance and will look like the tails weighing the fish down in the water.
Did the fish turn upside down.
Fish can erratic swim when there dying.

Causes of swim bladder are.
Unstable temp.
Poor diet.
Injury,
Birth defect of the swim bladder.
Internal parasites.
Bacterial infection.
Bad water quality.

You need to improve the fish diet with more frozen foods like brime strimp and daphnia.
Daphnia good as it helps the fish digest its food.
Introduce some green veg into there diet.

Cook some frozen peas for a few minutes, let cool down and pop out of shell. Mush into small peices and add to the tank.

Do any fish look skinny,.
Lost any fish to bent spines.
What does it look like when the fish go to the toilet.
Check the anus of the fish to see if its enlarged or red and inflamed.

Check the gills and body for excess slime.
Any signs of flicking and rubbing.

 

[monkeyhanger]

It sounds like swim bladder to me.
Fish will be unalbe to maintain balance and will look like the tails weighing the fish down in the water.
Did the fish turn upside down.
Fish can erratic swim when there dying.

Causes of swim bladder are.
Unstable temp.
Poor diet.
Injury,
Birth defect of the swim bladder.
Internal parasites.
Bacterial infection.
Bad water quality.

You need to improve the fish diet with more frozen foods like brime strimp and daphnia.
Daphnia good as it helps the fish digest its food.
Introduce some green veg into there diet.

Cook some frozen peas for a few minutes, let cool down and pop out of shell. Mush into small peices and add to the tank.

Do any fish look skinny,.
Lost any fish to bent spines.
What does it look like when the fish go to the toilet.
Check the anus of the fish to see if its enlarged or red and inflamed.

Check the gills and body for excess slime.
Any signs of flicking and rubbing.

I think we can definitely rule out temp fluctuations (my rena smart heater is very stable, and the thermometer values never fluctuate).
No signs of injury
No flicking or rubbing
Fish poo was normal
Had some Neons with bent spines a while ago (suspected NTD)
Fish was one of the slimmer platys I have (though didn't look starved)
Water quality great with no fluctuating values
Melafix and Pimafix at 1/2 dose for 4 days after new additions should curb the bacterials, no outward signs of infection.
From your list, that leaves internal parasites or the food. I'll give daphnias and peas a go (not at the same time!)

The fish didn't swim upside down, it was always right side up, but seemed weighed down at the tail

 

[WILDER]

Ntd can wipe a whole tank out.
Livebeares can get ntd.

Signs of ntd are.
Red area will look bleached out.
Red area will have a milky sustance on it.
Blue area will look like a golden yellow colour.
Fish will leave shoal.
Fish will be restless.
Bent spine.
Black linning around the red area.
Lumps on belly that go to a point.
Later stages dropsy and swim bladder.
Fish will swim in a odd manor.
Swimming will become erratic.

[URL="http/www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/...ra-disease.html"]http/www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/...ra-disease.html[/URL]

 

[WILDER]

Have all the neons died since.


http/freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disease/p/neondisease.htm

 

[WILDER]

It leaves swim bladder or ntd.

 

[Colin_T]

The Platy in question is a translucent lemon colour with black stripes on the outer edges of the tail (not sure what variety it is).

It firstly appeared to be breathing heavily, with lots of gulping and gill movement, then it couldn't stabilise itself horizontally, and had the tail end pointing downwards, like it's back end was dragging it down. When it tried to swim, it was powering upwards for a few seconds, but that seemed like an incredible effort for the fish. It ended up taking shelter in the top corner, but looked physically tired.

I'm thinking swim bladder - any suggestions? Could the cause of death be contagious?

Had some Neons with bent spines a while ago (suspected NTD)

The variety of platy sounds like a yellow comet platy, yellow body with black edge to the tail.

The symptoms of the fish sound like an internal problem. Any organ failure would cause those symptoms and it could be the swim bladder that went pop but is not that likely. A fish that has a swim bladder go pop can live for weeks or even months after it happens. Your fish died rapidly, which would indicate a major organ failure. Perhaps the liver, kidneys or something along those lines.
Fish sometimes develop internal bacterial or protozoan infections that affect a particular organ or all the internal organs. If the infection gets too big it can cause organ failure and the fish usually dies quite rapidly after the organ ruptures.
The combination of bent neons and a platy that died suddenly could indicate Tuberculosis or something similar. The TB bacterium grows slowly inside the fish's organs and eventually the organ fails and the fish dies. Bent backs are commonly seen in small narrow fish with this infection. Bigger fish don't always show the spinal deformity and can suddenly die for no apparent reason.

I would monitor the fish over the next few months and keep records of any fish that die. If you lose the odd fish every now and then and they die from similar symptoms, then you might have a TB infection in the tank. If you lose lots of fish rapidly (in the course of a week) then it is probably something else that can be cured. There isn't any real cure for TB in fish so most people just see what happens.

 

[monkeyhanger]

All the neons have been gone for 4 weeks. Had a second Platy (Sunset type) die exactly the same way last night also. which was number 2 of the 3 we bought from the same LFS as the first Platy that died. We have one more from that LFS, bought at the same time. The one remaining Platy from that LFS is almost all Blue/Black with a silver nose and belly. That Platy took a whole day and night to be comfortable in our tank, the other 2 that died took to our tank straight away.

Now I think about it, the one that died yesterday (second one) was hovering near the bottom of the tank, and tucking herself into a bushy plant a lot for the last few days, then coming out and acting normally for 1/2 the time.

Colin T: Never even considered TB. We still have 6 Platys bought elsewhere that have not been a bother at all (all at least 2 months old), and the one left from the LFS where the other 2 died. The first dead Platy was a yellow Comet - all I needed was a reminder as to the name.

Is it worth going for an internal bacterial medicine treatment? If so, which would you all recommend?

 

[WILDER]

Who said the neons died of ntd, and was the only symtom they showed was a bent spine.

Bent spine can be old age, vitamin defiency, fish tb, internal parasites, injury.

 

[Colin_T]

If you have only had the new platies for a week and they are dieing, then they probably came in with something like an internal infection. The stress of being moved from the shop to your tank would have simply exacerbated the problem.

If all the other fishes in your tank are doing fine (besides the new ones) I wouldn't treat them just yet. If you have a spare tank you could treat the new fish in that but if the others are ok, then wait a bit and see if any of them have a problem before you treat the main tank.