Dead Guppie And Clown Loach With Whitespot

[AndyOleszczuk]

I noticed about an hour ago that one of my clown loaches has got whitespot. Half an hour later my girlfriend spotted one of the guppies lying dead under a plant !!.
The guppie looked like it had been there for a few days and had no tail. I was wondering if this could be the cause of the whitespot and if maybe the guppie had whitespot ?

 

[dixaisy930]

Usually, fish won't die from ich, unless it's a severs case with secondary problems.

What are your water parameters?

How long have you had the fish?

How are the other fish looking?

 

[AndyOleszczuk]

Ph 6.8

Nitrites 0.50

Temp 78

I don't test the other things. Have had the tank set up since about october and this is the first problem I have had.
All my clowns have it now and one of my tetra's. I cant tell with the mollies but one of the cocolate ones keeps going up to the surface and flapping around.

Also, thought I had better point out that I moved a few things round in the tank yesterday and vacuumed the gravel as well as my fortnightly 30% water change. Could this be the cause as the water went very cloudy afterwards like a bacterial bloom ?. I went to my lfs who sold me some interpet No 3. filter aid which cleared it within an hour. I take it that vacuuming the gravel could have caused the high nitrite reading ?.

 

[WILDER]

How big are the clown loaches, your tank overstocked.
Buy a test kit liquid ones are the best.

 

[AndyOleszczuk]

How big are the clown loaches, your tank overstocked.
Buy a test kit liquid ones are the best.

Thanks for the reply Wilder.

Got liquid ph kit and liquid nitrites kit. 2 of the loaches are only 1" and 2 are about 4". I dont agree about my tank being overstocked though as the tank is well overfiltered by an oversized external and additional internal. I use a thing on www.thinkfish.co.uk called community creator and this is what it says about my tank:


"The stocking levels are based on the information provided above and displayed as overall length of fish in cm.
Guide stocking level: 480cm Current stocking level: 125cm"

So, according to them, I can put quite a few more in yet. Unless they are wrong !!. Obviously I dont know how reliable those recommendations are but I have never had any problems before, my nitrite readings have always been 0 when adding new fish. I know people with a lot more fish than this in smaller tanks than mine.

 

[WILDER]

Ok but as the clown loaches get bigger looking at a 90 gallon tank.

 

[dixaisy930]

Those nitrites could be the problem. I would do a partial water change and try to get those down.

My guess is the water quality is stressing the fish, and weakening their immune system.

Do you have sand or gravel in your tank?

 

[modaz]

overstocked??? its your choice wot you put in your tank
wilder-that wasnt the question asked

be careful when treating clown loaches, they dont have scales like other fish and they are very very sensitve to meds of any kind so advised to half the dose that is on the bottle/box and do one extra treatment this should sort the whitespot on clowns and other fish, if you already done the first course of treatment then dont worry the first one doesnt harm them as much as the second.
as for the guppy well sad to say that this happens often for many reasons, they do just tend to pop off at the most weird times, could be whitespot.


whitespot

 

[AndyOleszczuk]

Those nitrites could be the problem. I would do a partial water change and try to get those down.

My guess is the water quality is stressing the fish, and weakening their immune system.

Do you have sand or gravel in your tank?

Have done a 25 % water change. I have got an inch of silica sand then 2 inches of fine pea gravel. Will test nitrites again in a bit.
Thanks for all your help.

 

[LisaLQ]

overstocked??? its your choice wot you put in your tank
wilder-that wasnt the question asked

be careful when treating clown loaches, they dont have scales like other fish and they are very very sensitve to meds of any kind so advised to half the dose that is on the bottle/box and do one extra treatment this should sort the whitespot on clowns and other fish, if you already done the first course of treatment then dont worry the first one doesnt harm them as much as the second.
as for the guppy well sad to say that this happens often for many reasons, they do just tend to pop off at the most weird times, could be whitespot.


whitespot

It might not have been the question asked, but overstocking can and does lead to health issues so it was a relevent point. Of course you can put whatever you like in a tank, doesn't make it right to overstock - and when people post on a public forum, they have to understand there will be some advice they get which they may not want to hear. In this case, I dont know if they're overstocked or not - I'm useless at working that out with fish I dont have - but if Wilder says so, they probably are. IMO clowns have no place in smaller tanks, as they need a big tank eventually, and are happier and grow faster if put in it from the start.

Whitespot can be triggered by stress, stress is increased in overstocked tanks. Sadly clown loaches are very susceptable to whitespot, I lost all of mine a couple of months ago to it.

I followed all instructions to the letter on the medications - all other fish were cured and fine. After I lost them I was told by a respected member of another forum that instead of using half dose of white spot meds (protozin), they use triple the dose - in order to kill it quickly. It's not the whitespot that will kill your clowns, it's the length of time they have it - the sooner it's gone the better.

Obviously, I'm loathe to recommend triple dosage as I've not done it myself, and would hate for your fish to be overdosed.

 

[alexdallimore]

I would take the thinkfish guidelines with a pinch of salt. Although I think the site is a good one, the overstocking guides would seriously cram fish in.

 

[AndyOleszczuk]

Quoted by Lisa "IMO clowns have no place in smaller tanks, as they need a big tank eventually, and are happier and grow faster if put in it from the start."





I thought my tank would have been big enough for them. Its 60 us gallons and is 120cm x 40cm x 50cm, so I didn't think it was small. Maybe it would be in america where everything is bigger but I couldn't really afford much bigger (I wanted a juwel rio 400). This has annoyed me now as I feel let down by my lfs's (bought 2 from each one) as they never asked what size my tank was.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think what caused the outbreak maybe stress related as I had to remove everything out of the tank on Saturday to catch the sucking loaches as my friend ended up taking them off my hands. So I supposed this could have stressed the fish out and the water was very cloudy after disturbing the gravel so this could have caused a spike in the ammonia and nitrites and nitrates ?.

Anyway, took the advice off Wilder and got an ammonia test kit and a nitrate test kit today and some whitespot meds. My readings are as follows:

Ammonia 0.6

Nitrate 20mg

Have since done a 25 % water change and taken my zeolite out of my filter and added the meds. Since I have added the meds the clown loaches have been rubbing themselves on the bogwood, would this be the meds starting to work ?.

Thanks everyone for your advice and comments.

Fingers crossed.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

How long has this tank been set up? The ammonia would indicate that the tank is either cycling or going through a mini cycle, what is your general tank maintence like (size water changes, dechlorinator, filter and substrate cleaning etc) and how often do you do it on average?
You should read up on this article on avoiding and treating new tank syndrome, has a wealth of info on water quality etc (i highly recommend reading it );

http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=10099

The fish rubbing themselves on things is most likely due to either the whitespot parasites irritating them and/or the ammonia in the tank. What particular brand of anti whitespot medication are you using?

 

[AndyOleszczuk]

I do a 25% to 30% water change every 2 weeks and always use tapsafe in the new water. I also add interpet filter start everytime I do a water change to boost the bacteria. I test the ph and nitrites every week (just bought nitrate and ammonia kits)
The tank has been going since October.
I use an interpet gravel cleaner syphon once a month on the substrate.
My filtration is an external hydor prime 30 and also an internal fluval 404 with spray bar which I clean at separate times from each other in only tank water. I only clean the external filter media one part at a time. So I would say my filtration is excellent.
I have used 22ml's of interpet whitespot treatment which is the correct amount to treat 220 litres (mine being 218).

This is the first problem I have had with the tank so I think it has something to do with disturbing the substrate too much when I emptied the contents out on Saturday.

Hope this helps.
Many Thanks.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Glad to help .
Are you washing the filter sponges out in plain tap water at all? If so this is bad as the chlorine the tap water will be killing off the beneficial bacteria growing on your filter sponges everytime, which could be whats causing your tank to continue cycling.
I would advise cleaning the substrate more regularly (like once a week when you do your water change) as gravel can be really bad at trapping waste in it like old food and poop which can quickly rot in the gravel, causing water quality problems and even desease like columnaris.
With the Interpet med, i would advise treating the fish with it for a minimum of 3 weeks (even after the spots seem to have gone) as the whitespot parasite has many life cycles, not all of which are physically visable on the fish, and so you should treat the fish for a minimum of 3 weeks to make sure it is completely eradicated from the tank. Even after this i would advise not buying any new fish for a minimum of 2 weeks after you have finished medicating the current fish in your tank just to be on the safe side .
Ammonia and nitrites should always be 0 while nitrates should be preferably be kept under 40; if you see ammonia or nitrites in the tank you should do a 25% water change ASAP, but preferably take out no more than 60% a day (unless the situation is terrible).