Dead & Dying Fish Nightmare

[rms]

Hi all,
 
 
I have a 60ltr tank, which was heavily over stocked until I moved some to a smaller tank. There were 2 angels, 9 guppies and 15 neons. This was reduced to the angels, 5 guppies and 10 neons 6 or 7 days ago. Tank is cycled and changing 50% water every week. Fair number of plants and perhaps a little too much t5 lighting. Algae problems started.
 
Just over a week ago I cleaned the filter out in the old tank water. Gave it a good squeeze, got most of the gunk out and replaced it. About 5 days ago the water started going cloudy. In fact, more of a fine mist that can be seen swirling around. Then one of my guppies disappeared. Water getting more and more coudy. Changed 50% water, tested ammonia and nitrite. All good. Following morning water very 'misty' again. Wasnt' sure what to do but the missing guppie starting to irritate me. Following day have a good rumage around the tank. Guppie found dead in the plants. 50% water change, test ammonia and nitrite. All good for a couple hours and water cloudy again.
 
All the fish start acting odd. hiding away, noses up to the surface. Angels tilting over to their side and spasming. Really quite scared now. 2 50% water changes, another filter clean.This morning find a neon dead and one of the guppies very still, but alive behind a rock. Most unlike them. Both angels and some neons and rest of guppies seemingly gasping for air. Is this not a nitrate problem? But how so with so many water changes?
 
Mad panic. Kids to get to school, already running late, work etc. The only thing I can think is a quick test of the smaller tank. Yep all good. Chuck everything into it and deal with it later. It was the only thing I could think to do, but maybe the fish are sick, not the water. No time to do anything else and at least it's a chance.
 
Couldn't stop thinking about it on the school run so drop kids off, text my boss to say I'll work through lunch and come home. One of the angels dead in the small tank. Perhaps couldn't handle the lack of adjustment to the new water, but all other fish seem ok. The only problem: None of them are feeding. Not even the ones already there. I feed very little and often. A bigger feed in the morning because of work, maybe a minutes worth, but then every 1.5 hours from 6pm, just enough for 20 or 30 seconds. The fish go bezerk as soon as I arrive and practically jump out when the food is in sight. Not now. 
 
My plan tonight is to empty the 60 ltr. Clean it, the sand, the gravel, the plants and rocks. Clean the filter, curtain and heater. Refill, test and let run for a couple days to make sure. In the mean time add ammonia safe to the small tank to control the spikes. Aside from that I don't know what else and any advice appreciated.
 
Now I really do need to go to work. Gonna be a bad day

 

[Sophie]

What're you testing the water with?
When you cleaned the filter to start with, you never brought it into contact with any tap water no? Replaced none of the media?
 
I would've said you made a mistake dumping the fish into the other tank, as the filter will not have the bacteria to deal with the new arrivals.. 
 
For the time being, all I can advise is more water changes - if you've entered a mini cycle then you will need to keep on top of the spikes. When I had a Nitrite spike, I was changing the water 4/5 times a day, at least 70/80% at a time.
Your situation obviously won't be the same as mine was but we'll try and help you get to the bottom of it.

 

[Liv15]

You haven't use any chemicals in the same room as the fish tank have you? Have you used any cleaning products in that area recently? Aerosols cans? Fly spray? Fly spray is extremely harmful to aquatic environment so never use it in the same room. When you washed your filter maybe a small part fell out and yo didn't realise? Have a look around the tank and see if you find anything and check you put the filter back together correctly. Also, maybe you should wash the filter so much because you are getting rid of some of the goodness in it. Sorry I couldn't be more help but deffo think about the chemicals/cleaning products/bug spray thing.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

As soon as you can, a big water change (~95%) in both tanks would be my plan of action. Gasping at the surface is classic nitrite poisoning symptom (can apply to low oxygen levels too, but less likely in this case).
 
TwoTankAmin might post here later, giving you the option of dosing the tank with salt (if all are salt tolerant) to prevent nitrites from blocking the fishes' blood uptake of oxygen, but this is something I have little knowledge of and no experience of doing myself. 

 

[Sophie]

Are there any signs such as red gills? Are the gills moving faster than normal?

Goat is right about the nitrite having a connection with the gasping behaviour. If the nitrite ions enter the blood stream, it oxidizes the hemoglobin to form methemoglobin - methemoglobin is absolutely
useless as an oxygen carrier thus effectively suffocating the fish.

Ammonia on the other hand burns the gills like a caustic acid hence the need to ask about the red gills.

 

[rms]

Thank you all.
 
I'm using the Tetra liquid test kits. Definitely no chemicals came into contact with the tank and the filter was reassembled correctly. My test results were negative of nitrite and ammonia and no red gills. As for the breathing I'm not really sure if it's regular or faster than normal. None of the dead fish had any abnormalities.
 
Literally just got home from work so will do more tests and water changes and post here again later. Have lost the other angel, 2 guppies and 3 neons in the small tank. Gutted! Those left are still not eating in there either. There were two neons in the larger tank I missed. They are still alive.

 

[Meeresstille]

The mistiness in the water could be a bacterial bloom. This kind of bacteria also uses up a lot of the oxygen in the water. But I doubt it can be to the extend of fish actually dying. 
 
What kind of dechlorinater are you using? I've had problems with bacterial blooms every time after using a store brand dechlorinator, never again after I switched to Prime. 
 
Have you added anything new recently to your tank that may have introduced a parasite (ich?) or other disease?

 

[rms]

Again, I'm using Tetra. My brain is racing through everything I've done and actually there is a difference. When I filled the bucket up for the water change my partner was washing up. She always rinses with a little hot water running with the cold and I just stuck the bucket under and turned up the cold. So some of our tank water was in the water change. This is the only difference and it begs the question, what is in our hot water tank?!! Bacteria would make a lot of sense maybe...
 
I've tested the larger tank and both ammonia and nitrite are still zero. I'm going with plan a and will completely empty the tank and clean everything with cold water. Should I put the filter in the smaller tank for the time being? I'm guessing it would help deal with the ammonia and nitrite increase from the other fish.
 
Nothing new added and Prime it is from now on....

 

[Meeresstille]

I don't think a little bit of the hot water from your hot water tank has anything to do with it, but is it possible that some soap from your partner doing the dishes could have ended up in the water change bucket? Maybe soap got transferred on to your hands when turning the cold tap and then your hand touching the water or something in the tank? That could explain your fish dying!

 

[rms]

I hear you. We have a twin sink though so I just moved the tap over. If there was any soap it would have been microscopic as there was no water in the sink I used. Would that cause so much damage? Also, I don't tip the water in from the bucket, I siphon it with my vacuum. Nothing went in the bucket except water from the tap.
 
Wow... It just hit me. I didn't clean the bucket before use. It was brand new from B&Q, but there could have been traces of who knows what in there.....

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Normally rapid massive fish wipe outs are cause by contamination in a tank from something bad. Children have been know to put things into tanks believing they are helping also. Not saying that is the case here, only a possibility when younger children are involved.
 
It could have been something in a new bucket. Stores are cleaned regularly, who knows what might carelessly get into or onto what? The odd are that the initial exposure was enough to cause deaths, some delayed. When you moved the fish some of "it" must have moved as well.
 
Remember we measure things in parts per million. So even a water change of 9)% wont remove enough of some toxins to leave the concentration safe.
 
The rule for salt for nitrite is to get chloride into the water at 10 times the concentration of the nitrite level tested. You have to work in mg/l as you need to weigh the salt you will add to achieve this. Salt is just over 60% chloride. I use a 2/3 number which lets one multiply by 1.5 to get pretty close to the right salt amount. So
 
A. Nitrite present in ppm x 10 = desired concentration of chloride mg/l.  ppm = mg/l in water
 
B. Litre size of tank x .85 or .9 to allow for glass and decor.
 
A x B x 1.5 = needed milligrams of table salt/1000 = needed grams of table salt.
 
Before folks start in about salt intolerant things, this concentration of salt is extremely low compared to that for medication purposes and way, way below brackish or sw concentrations.

 

[Liv15]

I really think you should take a sample of your water to your LFS / an aquatics store/centre. Tell them the situation and ask for them to test it for you. Make sure they test it for bacteria and all. Then, when you find out the test results ask for advice on what to do next.

 

[Meeresstille]

I hear you. We have a twin sink though so I just moved the tap over. If there was any soap it would have been microscopic as there was no water in the sink I used. Would that cause so much damage? Also, I don't tip the water in from the bucket, I siphon it with my vacuum. Nothing went in the bucket except water from the tap.
 
Wow... It just hit me. I didn't clean the bucket before use. It was brand new from B&Q, but there could have been traces of who knows what in there.....

I didn't mean the spout, but the knob that you turn the water on with? In any case, I'm very sorry you've lost those fish!

 

[kazc31]

Do u match water temps? With all the water changes if you'd been adding cold water it could have stressed them further! Just a thought!

 

[Ch4rlie]

Do u match water temps? With all the water changes if you'd been adding cold water it could have stressed them further! Just a thought!

 
This would really occur if he put in the water either far too cold or hot too fast.
 
A few degrees cooler is not going to stress the fish IMO, in fact I think they rather like it just for a short while though. At least thats the impression I get when I do my water changes.