Dead Angelfish

[Zdkama]

First off, sorry that this thread is in the wrong forum. I tried posting in the emergency thread, but it said I was not allowed, and I'm not sure why. Hope I'm not breaking any rules.

Ok, for starters, I've been slowing cycling my first (29g) tank for about 8 weeks now. I overdid it a bit with the ammonia to start, but everything got under control. A few days ago, I could bring the ammonia to 3-4ppm, and my kit would read 0ppm ammonia/nitrites the next day. So I decided it was finally time to get fish. Went to the store and got six guppies, two platys, and two angles (about nickel/quarter size). I asked someone else about this, and they told me I added too many fish too soon, but I sort of thought that was one of the benefits of fishless cycling - that you could add a full tank of fish at one time. Also, is this just too many fish? They take up hardly no space in the tank, it still looks empty half of the time . I was hoping to add at least some type of bottom feeder (small species of pleco or maybe a cory cat?) and perhaps another platy or two, but now I dunno. I don't mind doing frequent water changes, if water quality is the only reason I can't have that many fish.

Anyway, on to the actual problem. The tank has only had fish in it for two days now, and everything seemed hunky-dory till a few hours ago. Fed the fish this morning, they seemed to be adjusting nicely to their new home and whatnot. Guppies were playing, platys were exploring, angles were being a little bashful, but coming out now and again. One of the two angles started acting very crazy, very suddenly, around 9pm. He was doing full circles (going upside down) darting around the tank and jerking oddly. He also ran into a wall, and later nose-dived into the gravel. Not long after, he died . None of the other fish seem to have any problems, including the remaining angel. Tested the water while this was going on, results as follows:

Ammonia - 0ppm
NitrItes - 0ppm
NitrAtes - 10ppm
pH - 6.4
Temp - 78F

I did a 25% water change the day before getting the fish, and a very large, perhaps 90%, two days before that. Oh, as for acclimating the fish, I floated the bag in the tank for aprox 30-45 minutes, they did the water drip (not sure if thats what its actually called?) method - where you put all the fish in a bucket and slowly drip siphon water from the tank to the bucket - for about an hour. I'm not sure whats going on, and I feel likes its totally my fault for that poor angel dying. I'm really worried about the other angel, hes even smaller than the one that died. After he passed I inspected him more closely, and I did not find any spots or bumps, but did notice some slight red coloration around the gill/mouth area. I only had him for a day, so I am not sure if it was there prior, and none of the other fish seem to have it. Do I have too many fish? I am not trying to place blame, but the guy at the pet store was rather rough with the fish when getting them from the tank (he dropped two of them on the floor actually...that I made him put back). Could his freak out have just been stress related? I don't plan to replace the angel until I know for sure a new one will be safe, if there is even room for him. Thank you all very much for your time and help.

 

[waterdrop]

Your current stats, the time you put into the fishless cycle and your description of how you conducted the aspects of the fishless cycle all seem reasonable and it sounds like the other fish are still behaving normally. To me, this makes it seem like you simply had a young angel that had swim bladder disease or some other internal injury or problem.

On the small chance that there might be some other identifiable disease process going on it would still be nice if Wilder or one of the other members experienced following disease situations would come along and perhaps ask some diagnostic questions. Closely examining the other angel and being upset about losing the first one, it would be easy to be overly worried about the normal bit of red coloration that I think would be normal to see around the other angels gill edge.

Following up on the fishless cycle, I'd just keep logging regular daily stats, as at 2 months you should probably have a good working biofilter. What kit are you using? Also, one note for other beginners: the test for the end of a fishless cycle is made a little more solid if you ensure that the drops from 5ppm ammonia to zero ppm ammonia and nitrite happen within 12 hours and then continue to "watch" the biofilter perform this for a "qualifying week" to make sure it doesn't drop back into having traces of either toxin show up. The end of a fishless cycle can fool you. I'm not implying this happened in your case.

From the information given so far I'd just continue to watch the current fish and stats for a week or two.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[meguro]

If the guy managed to drop 2 fish while trying to get them in a bag for you, who knows what happened when he was putting them into the stores tanks ie. he could have previously dropped any of the fish you bought, including the angelfish. And you wouldn't even know.

The red colouration around the gills could either be normal colouration or from ammonia/nitrite poisoning. Since it takes a while for that sort of damage to occur, it most likely would've been exposed to those things 3-4 weeks before purchase and possibly even before going in the stores tank (although I'd be a little suspicious of the place you bought them from). Could also be things like gill flukes. Did you observe the angelfish "scratching", rubbing or flicking up against tank ornaments, namely plants and rocks?

As for stocking, in my experience adult angelfish require around 20 us gallons each. So I'd only put one angelfish in a 29g tank. But you do have space for some bottom dwellers (small plecs, loaches, corydoras) and could add the few more platies too if you like. You won't have to worry about being over run by fry either. The platies will eat the guppy fry and the angelfish will devour anything and everything it can (both platy and guppy fry). Though as a general rule it's 1 inch of adult fish per us gallon.

What filter do you have and what is current tank maintenance regime?

 

[Zdkama]

Thank you both very much for your replies. I checked the water again today, same stats. I'm using the API Master Test Kit. All the fish seem just fine today. The remaining angel seems to be doing well, coming out to socialize more often. He doesn't seem to come up for food though, he just forages off the bottom and plants later instead. Is that normal? I've been feeding once in the morning when I wake up and again later in the afternoon. As for the filter and maintenance - I have a Tetra Whisper 30 power filter, and I replaced the bio-bag the day prior to adding fish. As the tank has only had fish in it for three days now, I don't exactly have a real regiment setup yet. I figured I would just do a 10-25% water change weekly, depending on nitrate levels. Is that enough?

I never even thought about the fish being dropped (or otherwise injured) prior to me getting them. The ones he dropped on me, he just put right back in the tank, so somebody else is just going to buy them eventually . I suppose that makes me feel a little bit better at least. Poor fish. I bought them from a PetSmart because their tanks looked very clean, as opposed to some of the dirty lfs' around. I saw a guy sell a beautiful Jack Dempsey at a small pet store in the area, and he didn't add any air to the bag or anything, and not enough water. When he sat the bag on the counter, it flattened out and the poor fish flopped and flailed around cause there wasn't enough water to keep him covered . I can't seem to find a place around here that actually cares about their fish. Are there any good/reputable online sites?

I suppose I'm fine with just one angel, I just like them so much! Perhaps when I can afford a 55g I'll have an angelfish species tank . Alright, one last question. If I was to just add one bottom feeder - I was thinking maybe a Clown or Pitbull Pleco? Are there any others that stay smallish and would go well with my other fish? How many more platys could I safely add to be "at capacity" for my tank? Is it more dependent on bio-load or swimming space at this point? I was "hoping" for 6 guppies/platys, but if that is too many that's alright. Thanks again for replying and helping me feel a little better about this whole thing. I don't think there was anything I could have done really .

 

[Zdkama]

Well, I just noticed one of the platy's pooping, and its very stringy looking, and white. She also seems to have a much larger belly than the other platy (also female). Seems I've read in various places that this is a sign of internal parasites? I've read that Paracide-D will cure it. Do I just dose the entire tank? Or put the platy in a small container and just feed the medicine to him? Sorry for so many questions, thank everyone again for any help.