Day 19 Of My Fishless Cycle.

[JohnBull]

Now into day 19 of my first ever fishless cycle and I am still getting a NITRITE level of 5 ppm with little change in my NITRATE levels to boot. I was wondering if I should do a partial water change to get my NITRITE reading down a tad, having reduced the AMM daily top up from 5 mls to 3 mls per 24 hours for the last few ( 3 days ) ?

This mornings readings

DAY 19.

AMMONIA 0 (Once again dosed back to 3.5 ppm )

NITRITE 5 ppm (has been this level for 14 days now ? )

NITRATE 10 ppm (Has been this level for 10 days now ? )


PH 7.4


Water TEMP: 29 DEGREES.



Should I be concerned yet,or carry on as per norm for a few more days and see what happens ?



John

 

[eaglesaquarium]

If you are going to do a water change, you might as well do as big a water change as possible. It's possible that your cycle has stalled. The nitrite level is higher than the bacteria you are trying to cultivate prefer, so a water change isn't a bad idea. Be sure to dechlorinate your water.



The great thing about a fishless cycle is that you don't ever need to worry. The bad news is that you need to be very patient at times.

 

[JohnBull]

Hi,

Just done a 50% water change as suggested.


I'm in uncharted territory now, so need some help and re-assurence if possible please.



1. When do I take my next water reading with my API ?

2. When do I start to add Ammonia again ?

3. Have I done much damage ?

4. Has the 50% water change set me back in my cycle,if so,how long ?



John.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Hi,

Just done a 50% water change as suggested.


I'm in uncharted territory now, so need some help and re-assurence if possible please.



1. When do I take my next water reading with my API ?

2. When do I start to add Ammonia again ?

3. Have I done much damage ?

4. Has the 50% water change set me back in my cycle,if so,how long ?



John.

Relax.

1 - Do your tests at the regular time.

2 - Dose at your regular time.

3 - No. Water changes don't do damage.

4 - If there is a set-back, it usually catches up again in a day or two. The ultimate goal is to get the N-bacs (nitrite processing bacteria - nitrospira primarily) to increase in number. They prefer lower concentrations of nitrite (<0.17ppm) so your change has brought the nitrite back into the range that the N-bacs prefer. Ultimately, you were going to need to do a water change eventually.

 

[JohnBull]

Hello again,


Feel better already.


So, basically you are saying retest for AMM/NITRITE/NITRATE and PH in the morning as per norm,and then, dose the tank back to a 3ppm Ammonia level accordingly.. right ?


John.

 

[JohnBull]

Hi,


Did a new test this morning after the 50% water change last night.


AMMONIA 0 (added 3 ml of AMM )

NITRITE 0

After this latest set back with Nitrite levels,I think its probably best that I post a daily account on my Cycle now, so any further potential problems can be spotted and corrected by those such as yourself who know about these things.


How does that sound ?



John

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Posting your daily log is always a good idea. I wouldn't call what happened to you a "set back". The truth is that it usually happens. It's called "the nitrite spike" phase of the cycle. It's a normal part of the cycle.


I would suggest including the entire log. Include the date (number of hours since dosing) pH, NH3, NO2, NO3, temp.

 

[JohnBull]

Thanks.


Here is my cycle to date.

JEWEL TRIGON 190 LITRES.


MAY 31st - 9 Mil of pure AMM added to start the cycle.

1/6 7am AMM 5.0 - NO2 0 - NO3 0 - PH 8.4
2/6 7am AMM 5.0 - NO2 0 - NO3 0 - PH 8.3
3/6 7am AMM 3.5 - NO2 0 - NO3 0.2 PH 8.2 1ML OF AMM ADDED at 7.30 am
4/6 7am AMM 5.0 - NO2 0.25 NO3 0.5 PH 8.0 1ML OF AMM ADDED at 7.30 am
5/6 7am AMM 5.0 - NO2 0.50 NO3 1.0 PH 8.0
6/6 7am AMM 4.0 - NO2 0.60 NO3 2.0 PH 8.0
7/6 7am AMM 2.0 - NO2 5.0 NO3 60 PH 7.8 3ML OF AMM ADDED
8/6 7am AMM 1.0 - NO2 5.0 NO3 80 PH 7.6 4ML OF AMM ADDED
9/6 7am AMM 1.0 - NO2 5.0+ NO3 80 PH 7.6 4ML OF AMM ADDED
10/6 THIS IS WHERE I MADE A MISTAKE BY ADDING A DOUBLE DOSE OF AMMONIA - 5ml at 7.00am and 4ml at 7.00 pm
11/6 MADE THE SAME MISTAKE WITH A DOUBLE DOSE OF AMM - 5ml at 7.00am and 4ml at 7 pm
12/6 7am AMM 0.5 - NO2 5.0+ NO3 5.0 PH 7.4 4ML OF AMM ADDED
13/6 7am AMM 0.5 - NO2 5.0+ NO3 5.0 PH 7.4 3ML OF AMM ADDED (TRYING TO GET THE NO2 DOWN)
14/6 7am AMM 0 - NO2 5.0+ NO3 5.0 PH 7.4 3ML OF AMM ADDED (TRYING TO GET THE NO2 DOWN)
15/6 7am AMM 0 - NO2 5.0+ NO3 5.0 PH 7.4 3ML OF AMM ADDED (STILL TRYING TO REDUCE NO2)
16/6 7am AMM 0 - NO2 5.0+ NO3 5.0 PH 7.4 2ML OF AMM ADDED (STILL TRYING TO REDUCE NO2)
17/6 7am AMM O - NO2 5.0+ NO3 5.0 PH 7.4 1ML OF AMM ADDED (STILL TRYING TO REDUCE NO2)
18/6 7am AMM 0 - NO2 5.0+ NO3 5.0 PH 7.4 1ML OF AMM ADDED (50% WATER CHANGE)at 7-00pm
19/6 7am AMM 0 - NO2 0 NO3 0 PH 7.4 3ML OF AMM ADDED
20/6 7am AMM 0 - NO2 0 NO3 60(sixty) PH 7.4 4ML OF AMM ADDED


As you can see,since the water change my NO2 levels are zero as of today,however,my NO3 levels have shot up to 60 ppm


Over to you.



John

22/

 

[eaglesaquarium]

That is exactly what is supposed to happen!


It looks like you are now getting zeros for ammonia and nitrite in 24 hours. That places you squarely into phase three! That means you continue to dose at your regular time, but now you test it after 12 hours. You are looking to get double zeros for both ammonia and nitrite after 12 hours. (DO NOT DOSE AT 12 HOURS REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE READINGS ARE... CONTINUE TO DOSE AT YOUR REGULAR TIME.) You are getting very close. Once you get a double zero reading at 12 hours, you start your qualifying week.


Have you completed your fish research? What fish are you going to be stocking when this all ends?

 

[JohnBull]

Thanks for the info.

I have question.


Should I now be dosing for 5ppm,or slightly less ?


FISHWISE.

This Tank was always going to be a family Tank from day one. The Kids want bright interesting fish,but I want to breed eventually and will no doubt be asking about this in the future. I would imagine the tank will have a mixture of various community fish with a small shoal of tiny fish to act as family so to speak(not sure which)yet. I like the of neon tetras,but the oldest last likes swordtails and mollies. I f I had my way it would include some angel fish or Barbs,but I dont think they get on do they ?



Thanks again,will keep posting on a daily basis with results,and will be testing now every 12 hours like you suggest.


Wish I had done this years ago btw...


Must dash.

John

 

[eaglesaquarium]

How many ppm are you currently dosing? I would add a bit more ammonia than had been added (maybe 0.50ppm extra) and continue to add a bit more until you reach the 4-5ppm dosage.


As far as your stocking plans...

Livebearers prefer hard water, neons and most tetras prefer soft water. Livebearers also prefer slightly basic water (~7.5) whereas the tetras generally prefer acidic (~6.5) water. You could try to straddle that, but I think the easiest way to go about it is to find fish that match your tap water parameters.


If your tap water is around 7.4, you could go with livebearers (which don't require any additional effort to breed).


Angels prefer a bit acidic water - softer water conditions as well for breeding. Angels can go with barbs, but you need to be careful exactly which species you go with. Tigers obviously are a poor choice. But cherry barbs won't fin nip. They may be too small to hang with the angels once they reach full-grown status. DO NOT HAVE NEONS WITH ANGELS! Neons are a natural food source for angels. That would be like keeping the zebras in the lion cage. It might work for a while, while the angels are too small, but eventually you will find some neons missing.



Put your tap water parameters up and folks will be able to help you with a stocking list. If you have your kH and gH values as well, that helps too.

 

[JohnBull]

Hello again,


I'm currently trying to keep the AMM levels up and around 3-4ppm.

I dont know what my perimeter (sp) readings mean other than what my local aqauatic shop tells me about the local water having a PH of around 7.4. Again I do not know what KH or gH is either sorry ?


TONIGHTS READING : 6-30pm

AMM 0 (yellow)

NITRITE 5.0 (Deep purple)

NITRATE 100 ish (between the last 2 colours on the API chart )

PH 7.4


As you can see my AMMONIA levels have fallen to zero yet again in 12hours since this mornings dose of 4ml.

However,my NITRITE levels are now back to around 5.0 ppm ?

Also my NITRATE (NO3)levels have gone up from 80 ppm to over 100+ ppm, (BUT I just did a tap water NITRATE test (twice) and it gave a NO3 level of 40 ppm ).

PH is stable at 7.4



Over to you again ?



John

 

[eaglesaquarium]

The ammonia dropping to zero in 12 hours first is normal... You are right where you need to be. Just wait it out. At 24 hours, the nitrite will probably be very low or zero. Dose the ammonia back up to 4ppm at that time. I don't remember if I told you this or not, but 1ppm ammonia will process to 2.7ppm nitrite and 3.6ppm nitrate. So, adding 4ppm ammonia daily means about 11ppm nitrite and about 15ppm nitrate. The nitrates being high isn't an issue. If it bothers you, you can do a massive water change to lower it. If not, just let it be and reduce this with a 100% water change at the end.


If your pH is 7.4 I would probably steer clear of angelfish and tetras. This water is more suitable to livebearers or some cichlids. I would guess that your water is at least medium hard. If you want to make sure, you can put some crushed shell into your filter to increase the hardness and slowly raise the pH a little more. You should probably have it tested at your LFS just so that you know what your water is and not the LFS. They are probably similar, but you can't be sure. Truthfully, most fish can be acclimated to a fairly wide range of water, but certain ones don't fair as well in water that is less suitable to them. (Mollies and platys for example need harder water. They can survive if properly acclimated to softer conditions, but will be far more susceptible to disease.)


What size is your tank? What is the filtration? What is your substrate?

 

[JohnBull]

Hi,


First of all,now that you have my latest readings, should I keep testing every 12 or 24 hours ?



Tank is JEWEL TRIGON 190 - 190 litres,but with subtrate,ornaments ect.. I reckon its a 170/175 ltr tank now.


FILTER :

Is an standard internal Trigon 190 Biofilter which houses the pump,heater and filter pads. I have also added an undergravel filter system to boost my filtration system with a twin bubble plume system to break up the surface level and act as bubble stone to help with oxygen levels and/or a breakdown of my Biofilter or incase I remove the filter for more room in the tank.

SUBTRATE:

Is 75mm of multi colour 3 and 4 mm gravel.




John.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

According the leading researcher on aquarium bacteria this is the proper method for doing a fishless cycle:

Whatever the source of your ammonia the following is the way to proceed. Add the ammonia solution to the aquarium so that the ammonia concentration is between 2 and 3 mg/L (but, as mentioned, do not go above 5 mg/L). Record the amount of liquid you added. Wait 2 or 3 days and measure the ammonia and nitrite. Continue measuring ammonia and nitrite every 2 or 3 days until you start to see some nitrite. This is a sign that the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria are starting to work. Add half the initial amount of ammonia you added to the water on day 1. Continue measuring ammonia and nitrite every 2 or 3 days. Around day 9 to 12 the ammonia will probably be below 1 mg/L, maybe even 0, but nitrite will be present. Nitrite does not spike until somewhere between days 14 and 20. You want to be careful adding more ammonia because you do not want the nitrite-nitrogen over 5 mg/L as this will start to poison the nitrite-oxidizing bacteria. Add a little ammonia every few days (1/4 dose) making sure the nitrite does not go above 5 mg/L. Once you start to see the nitrite decrease it will drop pretty fast. The cycle is completed when you can add the full dose of ammonia (2 to 3 mg/L-N) and overnight it all disappears to nitrate with no sign of nitrite. Now you can start to add fish.

From http/www.drtimsaquatics.com/fishless/fishless.html