dark ages weaponry… ( the swords )

[emeraldking15 66]

to young to sex yet, but accepted into the group…

It may take a serious time frame before the actual sex will be clear with wild strains of swordtails.

 

[Magnum Man36 150]

this brings up a question… I’m wondering about males with no swords, or very late bloomers… one of the most colorful ( that I have been calling a female ) may actually have male organs… in the world of breeding, if this happens, I’d assume those males should be culled… I wouldn’t kill them, just remove them from the breeding colony, to try to reduce that trait from passing on…

does that happen very often???

 

[Innesfan33 17]

Why would you cull later-bloomers? There's nothing undesirable about it. Quite the contrary. It's the early bloomers that are more likely to be small in size and less robust.

 

[Magnum Man36 150]

was thinking if they didn’t outwardly show their sex, until fully mature, it would require the fish to be held longer before their sex could be determined, and if a male didn’t get a sword, then aren’t they really just a “platy” wanna be???

I’d assume each actual “species” has a standard ( like a male sword tail should have a sword tail ) and may include how long it takes for them to mature , and of course color standards, and unless you are line breeding for a specific trait, that the fish you are breeding should meet all the “standards” for that species???

 

[Innesfan33 17]

was thinking if they didn’t outwardly show their sex, until fully mature, it would require the fish to be held longer before their sex could be determined, and if a male didn’t get a sword, then aren’t they really just a “platy” wanna be???

I’d assume each actual “species” has a standard ( like a male sword tail should have a sword tail ) and may include how long it takes for them to mature , and of course color standards, and unless you are line breeding for a specific trait, that the fish you are breeding should meet all the “standards” for that species???

Ah, I thought we were talking about your spotted wild-type which are not maculatus-hybrids. I've very limited experience with swordtail hybrids--it's been many years since I've had anything but wild-type-- that said, I've never had a swordtail male not eventually mature and develop a sword. And again, the late bloomers have often been regarded as the most desirable specimens. Perhaps recent manipulations of the helleri-maculatus-variatus hybrids have changed that but I have to defer to @emeraldking for an opinion on that subject.

 

[Magnum Man36 150]

I was specifically talking about the rio swords, but the question was really towards positive traits of really any fish being bred… if breeding a pure strain, one could still get undesirable traits which the breeder could either cull, or line breed for that unusual trait… I believe the gold colored denison barbs started out that way???

 

[Innesfan33 17]

Yes. But late-maturing is not an undesirable trait.

 

[Magnum Man36 150]

the prettiest female, a rio female, the bright overhead light is catching her just right, she looks like she glows…and one of the bigger dwarf crays on the log, in the middle picture…

and this 3rd picture a group of 2 females, and the dominant male… this has become one of my favorite tanks to watch, though it requires me to lay on the floor, in front of it…

 

[Magnum Man36 150]

assuming another female rio sword had babies, as I saw 4 ( without having to search for them ) sword fry this morning…

also a sideways unexpected view… I had put 3 orange neocardia shrimp in this tank several months ago, and never saw them again…now, I think what I thought was a baby dwarf orange cray, a while back, was actually and orange neo, as I saw it again this morning, and I’m sure this a shrimp…

I would have never thought the crays and the neocardia, would coexist in the same tank???

 

[Magnum Man36 150]

well this morning there is at least a dozen new rio sword fry in this tank… if the crays eat any of them, it’s not enough of them to make much of a dent…

 

[Magnum Man36 150]

it’s really nice to see fry in every corner of the tank right now…

I will probably lose my 1st ( smaller ) male… the dominant male seems ok when the little one eats, little guy just can’t leave the females alone , and dominant will not tolerate the sneaky little guy saddling up with his girls, doing so, ends up with a roundy round 3-4 laps around the tank… hoping as the juvinals and fry grow, that will take some pressure off the little guy, either, with more females to defend or males to divide the chasing up…

 

[Magnum Man36 150]

assume my females are getting more mature… previously fry were 2-3 per batch… there are 8-10 new fry in this tank today… so far 5 - 6 batches of only a couple fry, I can tell them apart, as they are all about a quarter inch longer, as they get older

so there are 8-10 1/2 inch long ones newest in the tank today

 

[GaryE]

Generally, with swords, you're getting batches of 40 plus. But they will eat fry in the first short while.

Late blooming is a poor trait commercially, but an important one biologically. Yeah, you'd like to be able to sex them for sale, but late bloomers are longer lived, hardier and inevitable. You can't breed that out, I believe. It's a genetic timing mechanism that protects the survival of the species.

The shorter lived early bloomers flame out quickly, and the second wave of males are stronger ones.

 

[Magnum Man36 150]

that’s another “yet to find out” so far, all immature look female ( I know that’s normal ) but even the 1st 2 that were born in my tank, are now 1.5 inches long ( about the size of the 1st, smaller male when he arrived, both of these 1st fry still appear female… the females pregnant when they arrived, so not likely from either of my 2 males… the couple 1.25 inch fish both appear female… I guess I’ll have to wait and see how big they begin to show their sex… if all sizes end up female, I’ll have to look for a cause, and if anything needs to change to get males eventually…

 

[GaryE]

My Xiphorus mayae swordtails sexed out at 14 months of age.