Cycling With Fish?

[twistedlink]

I made another thread about not being able to buy ammonia, ergo, fishless cycling is out of the option.

From my understanding once my tank is filled (240L tank getting it this friday) and ive let it set for 2-3 days so the chlorine can disperse out the water (chloramine isnt used in my pipes i dont think...but i might be wrong, should i add de chlorinating chemicals incase?)

Anyway i digress, im fine with that, but as i cant add "artificial" ammonia, would it be safe to buy say 5 fish at the beginning, in a 240 litre tank, to make ammonia, but also keep it in such large amounts of water it doesnt damage the fish?

And gradually add 5 fish each week and gradually build up the bacteria that way


Is this a good idea?

Obviously i'll buy the hardiest fish first, and the more delicate ones later.

suggestions?

 

[seangee]

I made another thread about not being able to buy ammonia, ergo, fishless cycling is out of the option.

From my understanding once my tank is filled (240L tank getting it this friday) and ive let it set for 2-3 days so the chlorine can disperse out the water (chloramine isnt used in my pipes i dont think...but i might be wrong, should i add de chlorinating chemicals incase?)

Anyway i digress, im fine with that, but as i cant add "artificial" ammonia, would it be safe to buy say 5 fish at the beginning, in a 240 litre tank, to make ammonia, but also keep it in such large amounts of water it doesnt damage the fish?

And gradually add 5 fish each week and gradually build up the bacteria that way


Is this a good idea?

Obviously i'll buy the hardiest fish first, and the more delicate ones later.

suggestions?

I always use de-chlorinator - it's not worth the risk. If you do a fish in cycle you will need it anyway for lots of water changes.
Try to get ammonia - honestly it's the best way by far. Its usually sold as cleaning agents.
Definitely do not add fish every week. If you must do a fish in cycle add 5 by all means. Then you need to test and react daily. Do not add any more until your nitrite has peaked and dropped back to zero. This could take as long as 3 months. If you test for nitrite after a week you won't have any. This does not mean you can add more fish - all that will happen is lots of sick fish.

 

[rabbut]

I wrote [topic="224306"]this[/topic] thread a while back, with regards to fish in cycling.

As seangee said, try again to find ammonia, as fish in cycling is very hard on your cycling fish, and at best will shorten their lives Look in chmists, as that is where I get my ammonia from. If you are in the UK, Boots own brand ammonia is ideal. I'm sure walmart's own barnd is good for US baced people too.

HTH
Rabbut

 

[twistedlink]

Yes im from UK, cool stuff il go to boots and buy some tommorow.

also, another question, i got 5 in 1 tester strips, but it doesnt test ammonia, it tests nitrite, nitrate, KH, GH, and pH

Im not too worried about this as one of the measures is nitrite, and i can simply measure for nitrite, once nitrite is being made i know ammonia fixing bacteria are definitely present, and then obviously as nitrites get to low levels i can put the fish in.


How long does fishless cycling take on average?


Thanks for the replies they've helped a lot!

 

[Miss Wiggle]

here's a thread about cycling with fish

http/www.fishforums.net/content/New-to-t...eady-have-fish/

it's perfectly possible and you can do it without killing any fish, however it's a massive ball ache and really risky

i would suggest you use fish food, it will decay and produce ammonia, therefore starting the cycle. however it's not accurate because you can't measure how much fish food will create 5ppm of ammonia. however if you stick a pinch in every couple of days and monitor the levels, after a few weeks you'll get 0 ammonia and nitrite, do a big water change making sure to siphon out any remaining food, then add a small number of fish and build up slowly from there

Yes im from UK, cool stuff il go to boots and buy some tommorow.

also, another question, i got 5 in 1 tester strips, but it doesnt test ammonia, it tests nitrite, nitrate, KH, GH, and pH

Im not too worried about this as one of the measures is nitrite, and i can simply measure for nitrite, once nitrite is being made i know ammonia fixing bacteria are definitely present, and then obviously as nitrites get to low levels i can put the fish in.


How long does fishless cycling take on average?


Thanks for the replies they've helped a lot!

sling the tester strips, you won't be getting accurate readings and as such can't guage if it's really cycled. i've know people do fishless cycling with the strips, complain that it's going on for like 3/4 months and they're still getting nitrite reading, go n buy a liquid test n realise it was cycled and probably has been for months, just the false readings threw them off. can order API Freshwater master test kit on-line loads of places for about £15. IMHO it's an essential not an optional purchase

difficult to predict, but between 2 and 6 weeks is normal

 

[twistedlink]

I'll probably use the ammonia from boots, though i might do the food option depending.

I tried getting liquid tests but couldnt find any

I'll try to find some, i dont like buying stuff off the internet much lol

Thanks misswiggle.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah ammonia is the preferred option for sure, but fish food is a good plan B

be brave, t'internet's not that scary

 

[backtotropical]

Hi Twistedlink,

From my experience, only certain Boots stores stock the 'Household Ammonia' and you are not sure to get it at your 'local' Boots. A far more reliable plan is to go to Homebase. I've never found a Homebase store which doesn't stock it.

I too would advise that you should use bottled ammonia if at all possible. Cycling with fish will, at worst, kill the fish, and at best, damage their long-term health. Fish food is an ok option but is not so reliable as bottled ammonia as you never know how much ammonia the food will produce. It is therefore difficult to regulate your ammonia levels (which is quite important). As Wiggle says though, its a good plan B.

You should definitely get an ammonia test kit too. Your LFS should sell them or if not, go to Pets at Home or Dobbies Garden Centre. Buy a liquid test kit, not strips which can be terribly inaccurate.

The Nutrafin Mini Master Test Kit or the API Master Test Kit would be a good investment.

Hope your cycle goes well. Keep asking questions and you won't go far wrong.

Cheers

BTT

 

[waterdrop]

<...>
I tried getting liquid tests but couldnt find any

I'll try to find some, i dont like buying stuff off the internet much lol
<...>

twistedlink: don't blame you about internet shopping, many feel that way. The problem is that so many things that make a hobby go just right are hard to find. Also there can sometimes be quite significant savings using the internet.

One way to insulate yourself somewhat from problems is to simply get a credit card that you use only for internet transactions. Major credit cards have mechanisms to limit your loss in a bad transaction. So if you use one of these and make sure to never use a debit card, you are in a safer position.

Some don't like to use the internet because it means going around their local businesses but that is a different issue.

Anyway, everyones situation is different, just throwing the thought out there to you in case its of help.

 

[twistedlink]

lol funny you mention that backtotropical because i know an area that has a pets at home and a homebase.

I did go to a pets at home the other day but couldnt find just pure ammonia, or a liquid test kit, THOUGH, i don't know what a liquid test kit looks like, i got API 5 in 1, so i got the API company right, just not the type of test LOL.

I'll try and find some at boots, if all fails, il go to homebase.

well ive bought things from online before, i just prefer to see what im buying, online shopping doesnt feel right, spending money on a picture, and end up with a different product, ive had that before, where the site wasnt edited correctly, wrong ID number on the wrong item, grrr to them all! In a shop you get what you see LOL.

Call me old fashioned, everyone else does haha

 

[vinylman]

Is there any chance a LFS would let you have some mature filter media?. Worth asking.

 

[twistedlink]

No need to worry got the ammonia now, but that was a good idea i should have asked that

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Is there any chance a LFS would let you have some mature filter media?. Worth asking.

sadly unlikley IME

LFS's are generally much more focused on selling you bacteria in a bottle products, nitrazorb and 10 platy's that you'll need to replace in 2 weeks time cos of the cycle. sad but true.

glad you found the ammonia, google API Fresh Water Master Test Kit, when you've found a site with a price you're happy with then post the link here and we'll check it's the right one

 

[twistedlink]

found it in a store today misswiggle, 500ml's worth so thatl last me a while

Im buying a 2nd hand tank now too (friends, and i know its working fine, though il be buying new filter and heater, good for practice) which is a 25 gal one, il probably use that for transferring fry into when i get many babies.

 

[pastabake]

Take a look at these two threads - though I'm sure you've already read the first one;

http/www.fishforums.net/content/Tropical...Fishless-Cycle/

http/www.fishforums.net/content/forum/22...cling-Are-Good/

The first one tells you how to do a fish less cycle and the second one has some interesting research that suggests that (1) You only need to add 1ppm ammonia each day and (2) the cycle should only take about 19-21 days.

The upshot is that you only need to start testing your water at the beginning to make sure you're adding the right amount of ammonia and at day ~19 to check that there is no ammonia or nitrite because the cycle has worked.

Personally I think the strip tests are perfectly adequate for use during cycling because you are only testing for effects - it will be more than obvious when the ammonia and nitrite consuming bacteria have started to do their jobs. Its only later when you might want to be more precise that the added accuracy of the liquid tests becomes handy.

You should always condition your water if it has chloramines in because unlike chlorine it doesn't degas so aerating or leaving your water standing for a day or two will have no effect - you can check with your local water company what they put in the water. Also chlorine and chloramines are not just bad for the fish they are bad for the bacteria and will stop you from successfully cycling.

PS. Don't forget to test your tap water.