cycling with fish

[leah9798]

Hi guys! I know I've asked questions about nitrate and ammonia and undertsand how the cycle works, but I'm still confused on one thing. I did a big no no and got my tank and fish all at the same time. I've had it for a month now but I'm still confused and think maybe I have screwed this up some how. My fish are doing really well but my ammonia keeps testing at .25 regularly, my nitrates are 0 and some rare days my ammonia tests at 0. Is my tank ever going to fully cycle if I keep adding chemicals to the water? For example prime and stresscoat. It can't be cycled if I have an ammonia reading right? I know its dangerous to my fish to have any level of ammonia or nitrites but by lowering the ammonia level using chemicals, will it ever cycle? I mean ammonia has to be present to get the nitrites that turn into the nitrates, but every time I get some I'm told to get rid of them. Can someone please help me out on this? What about adding something like biospira to aid in cycling? Thanks!!! I hope I made some sense here. leah

 

[Lithril]

Rightie, adding chemicals is not preferable as this can kill or slow the bacteria. Getting a tank to cycle with fish can take up to 2 months (sometimes longer with smaller tanks), the reason for this amount of time is that because of the amount of water changes that you have to do to keep the levels low enough for fish you're actually not leaving much for the bacteria so they'll grow more slowly. After a month you will (or should) have some bacteria in there, the fact you keep getting spikes is a bit worrying. Do you dechlorinate the water thoroughly between water changes?

How often and how much water do you change at a time and do you clean the filter out at all?

If the tanks been going for a month and the bacteria hasn't been harmed then I don't think that biospira will help as all this does is put some into the tank to get it started its not an instant cycling product.

You might be able to help things along by putting some plants into the tank, or if you can find it some bogwood with something like java fern growing on it from an established tank (some lfs can supply this)

How big is the tank and what fish have you got in it?

Keep doing the water changes and monitoring the levels.

 

[leah9798]

Hi Lithril! It's a 50 gallon, I have 2 angels, 2 gouramis, 2 buenos aires tetras, 2 guppies, 2 platys and 6 neons. I've been doing about about 15%20% PWC every 4 days, and the prime I add into the new tap water before adding it to the tank. On 2 occassions in the month I've had it I've added half dosages to my tank. Once because I did have some nitrites and nitrates in my tank and I kept reading that was bad that was last week. Now my water is testing no nitrates and ammonia .25. No, I have not cleaned the filter at all or the gravel, I was told not to because that was where the good bacteria would grow. So, getting live plants would help and bogwood, I can do that. What about the chemicals, just add during water changes? and how often would you recommend doing them? I was worried if i did too many that would make me lose my bacteria also. Thanks!!!!!!

 

[Lithril]

The only chemicals I would advise adding is the dechlorinator that you add to the water during water changes. What is the prime you're adding is that to remove chlorine or chloramines??

You won't lost much of the benificial bacteria from water changes, it grows in the substrate (sand or gravel) or the filter bed so if the levels start rising do one straight away. My 10 gal plays up frequents and when I was getting it to cycle I was changing 15-20% of the water daily (didn't know about fishless cycling either then ) you shouldn't need to do it that often though with a tank that size. Your main indicator for a water change will be the ammonia and nitrite levels at the moment.

Live plants will directly consume nitrates and some of the ammonia/nitrites, also it will contain more bacteria to help the tank. Only mentioned the bogwood as some lfs sell it from an established tank with the java fern or moss growing on it, this will add bacteria to the tank if you've lost any.

 

[leah9798]

Thanks Lithril again Yes the prime removes ammonia, chlorine, chloramine and detoxifies nitrites and nitrates. But I want some of those don't I? LOL. I'm going to the lfs tonight and get my nitrites tested and get a few plants too. Maybe I just need a dechlorinater like you said and do a lot of PWC's. Thank you!! Leah
This fish stuff is hard work.LOL

 

[Lithril]

Tell me about it I started up my current tank about 2 months ago before I found this forum and have had so many problems which I've just about got sorted now. Currently setting up another 30 gal tank which I'm trying the fishless way and gotta say seems to be working a dream.

I'm not sure about brands of dechlorinater just make sure that it removes chloramine as well and that you add it to the water BEFORE it goes in tank.

Hard work but well worth it

Take care and good luck

 

[leah9798]

Thanks for all your advice Lithril and Good Luck on your new tank, too!!!

 

[Chilled Babe]

I seem to be going through the same thing as Leah. I have been cycling my tank for the past 6 weeks and my ammonia goes up and down from 0 to 0.25. The water is slightly coloured from the bogwood I have in the tank so maybe this accounts for the colour slightly raised? I have 2 platies in my tank along with 12 5 week old babies and my Nitrite & Nitrate have always been 0 and the PH 7.6.

Is it better just to carry on with the present fish until I cycle or can I add some other fish. I am keen to add some spotted corys as I have heard they eat snails. I would also like to add 5 cardinal tetras, 5 glowlight tetras, 1 ram, and 1 betta. I have a 100 litre tank. I know I have to take it easy when adding fish and not rush.

I though I would have seen some spike by now in the levels. I do have lots of light in the tank along with 10 live plants.

What should I do?

 

[Alien Anna]

I'm afraid cycling with fish is a slow, laborious and potentially dangerous process (for your fish). It can take months to complete and there are no short-cuts, unless you can get matured filter media and gravel from another source.

Some people are getting very enthusiastic about this Bio-spira product (chilled bacteria that you get fresh from an LFS), but I remain sceptical. Still, I'm less sceptical than I'd be about preserved bacteria products such as "Cycle" or "Stresszyme". You've got to do what you can to get that ammonia and nitrite level down and if you have luck with a product, all the best to you.

In the meantime, you can of course add more fish, but you may simply be condemning them to death, plus wasting your money. If you know there is ammonia or nitrite in your tank, adding more fish is only going to make it worse. So please be patient, and next time, maybe you'll consider fishless cycling?

 

[Chilled Babe]

I wish I had read this forum before I got fish because I would have definitely have done a fishless cycle.

I checked my ammonia, nitrite and nitrate and they are all 0 - nothing has changed since Day 0. I did think my ammonia was raised slightly but I noticed today that the tube I use has a slight yellow tinge to it even after cleaning so I guess the level has been 0 throughout. I am able to do a correct reading by turning the tube upside down and looking at what would be the top of the tube where there is no yellow tinge!

I was told by my LFS that after a week I could add 2 fish and then every week add another 2 until the tank was full - luckily after a week I found this forum which stopped me buying any more. I guess I'm just getting impatient, especially since there has been no change in any readings.

Thanks Anna.

 

[Gunnie]

I would definately try a different water conditioner than what you are using. Get the most basic if you can. I am currrently using Aqua plus made by Hagen, and it only removes chlorine and chloramine, neutralizes heavy metals, and has some kind of stress reducing stuff in it for the slime coat. When you use stuff that also neutralizes ammonia, & nitrites, your test readings may be inaccurate. If you have another tank to temporarily house your fishies, and you want to start all over, then I highly recommend the bio spira. I have used it 3 times with excellent results. My last time was about 5 weeks ago, when I somehow trashed my biological filter and the water got so bad my whole house smelled like a sewer! I had to completely drain my 100 gal. tank, move my babies to a 55 gal., and refill it. I ordered the bio spira online because I can't get it locally, and let the tank run with no fish for a few days. When my bio spira arrived, I added back in my 7 inch oscar, my 6 inch oscar, my 7 inch jack dempsey, my 4 inch jack dempsey, & my 7 inch pleco, one by one. I then immediately added the recommended amount of bio spira. I have yet to have an ammonia or nitrite spike. My nitrates are at 20. The stuff is great if you are in an emergency situation. If you can't find it locally, I'd recommend ordering from Bernie at the Fish Store. It does have a shelf life, and must be kept refigerated until used. I think this has caused some problems for some people. I know Bernie's is fresh and cold!

 

[Lithril]

I'm still getting problems with the tank and its been running for 3 months now, I've just got the go ahead from the other half to get another tank (small 15-20 gal) tank so that I can rehouse my white mountain minnows, and the probably get a Betta.