Cycling Question.

[Sammi&RyanMitch92]

Hey Yall
  I have a 75 gallon fish tank. Its has been running for about 2 1/2 weeks. I'm doing the "Fish in" cycle. I check the water levels every day. I have two Tiger Oscars in there and three Marimos. I know its going to spike in ammonia first. And it is. its at about 2ppm as of today. How high is it going to go before the bacteria start doing their job? and when should I start being concerned about it getting too high?
 

 

[Blondielovesfish]

What is your pH?
 
Since you have fish, you will want to keep your ammonia low as to not do damage to your fish. Depending on your pH, we can tell you how much that level should be before it is a cause for concern.

 

[Sammi&RyanMitch92]

The PH is 8.4
ammonia is 2ppm
everything else 0ppm
Temp is 76F
I feed them a combo of (alternating each day) flakes, pellets, dried shrimp, and live worms.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

You need to do an immediate water change. Assuming the temp. of your tank Is 78F you have .2447 ppm of the toxic NH3 in your tank. The point at which fish are being harmed is at .05 ppm.
 
Ammonia exists in two forms, NH3 which is very toxic and NH4 which is way less so. How much is in each form depends on the pH and temp. The higher these go, the more toxic form NH3 there is in any given total ammonia reading.
 
It is a very bad idea to try and cycle with fish in tanks as the pH goes over 8 and by 8.5 it become very difficult if not impossible to keep fish safe.
 
You need to keep your ammonia level below .5 ppm where the NH3 would be .0612. At .25 ppm the NH3 level would be .0306 ppm.

 

[Sammi&RyanMitch92]

Where I live that is the normal PH of the water. the fish are born and bread in it...The LFS has the same PH...I defiantly asked about it,,they said no big deal bc the fish are raised in it. Im sure if the water was really bad right now the fish wouldn't be acting normal..right?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Wrong- exactly how do you know what is normal behavior for fish?  have you observed them for many months or years? Without having to Google it do you knpw what the signs are for ammonia toxicity or do you know how and why nitrite harms fish?
 
I have given you good info, you have two choices, ignore it or take action to fix things. But before you decide you might consider spending a few minutes researching ammonia toxicity, NH3 vs NH4 etc.
 
But what confuses me here is why you even bothered to post since apparently you already "know" the answer.

 

[Sammi&RyanMitch92]

You need to do an immediate water change. Assuming the temp. of your tank Is 78F you have .2447 ppm of the toxic NH3 in your tank. The point at which fish are being harmed is at .05 ppm.
 
Ammonia exists in two forms, NH3 which is very toxic and NH4 which is way less so. How much is in each form depends on the pH and temp. The higher these go, the more toxic form NH3 there is in any given total ammonia reading.
 
It is a very bad idea to try and cycle with fish in tanks as the pH goes over 8 and by 8.5 it become very difficult if not impossible to keep fish safe.
 
You need to keep your ammonia level below .5 ppm where the NH3 would be .0612. At .25 ppm the NH3 level would be .0306 ppm.

Ok, so I wasn't trying to "know it all" and sorry if I sounded like that. But I honestly didn't change the water when you said...I researched the cycle thing a lot. Everything that I read said the ammonia has to spike then it goes down then the nitrite spikes then goes down, then the nitrate spikes then it starts over right? Like I said I keep a water log and test it everyday. I started this tank a little bit before January. Filled it let the water warm up to room temp for 48 hours then turned the heater on, let the tank warm up, (décor already added) So the tank ran with no life in it for at least 4 days. Then on 01/02/14 I got my first fish and 3 marimos. everything started at 0ppm (excluding PH). The second day I got a second Oscar. Again no water change. 01/04/14 the water started to spike .25ppm ammonia. It steadily went up everyday. The ammonia finally topped out 01/09/14 - 01/13/14. Today when I tested the water the nitrite finally started going up! YAY!  Its at .50ppm and the nitrate is at 5.0ppm. Now my new question about cycling is: how high can the NITRATE get before I do a water change? and how much of a water change do I have to do? Do I add another "shot" of aquarium salt after the change? (this on is kinda dumb but..) Do I get the chlorine out of  the new water then add it back to the tank?
 Not throwing anything in your face two tank. but just wanted you to know that everything was ok and thanks for the response.

 

[Gruntle]

I think you might be confusing fishless cycling with fish-in cycling. Basically if there's no fish in the tank you won't be killing them no matter what the ammonia or nitrite readings are, but with fish in the tank you are at a very high risk of causing them suffering by having anything other than 0-0 as your readings.
 
Pretty much ANY nitrite is verging on deadly for fish, so water changes are essential as soon as you get a reading! Ammonia is also very bad, and worse when it gets converted to nitrite, because your tank at the moment cannot cope with it until it finishes cycling.

 

[EllieJellyEllie]

 
how high can the NITRATE get before I do a water change?

 
I would say 60ppm or lower. Just do weekly changes when your cycle is over.
 
 
Do I get the chlorine out of the new water then add it back to the tank?
 
Yes, add dechlorinator to the bucket after filling it up, swish it around a bit, and add it to the tank.
 

and how much of a water change do I have to do?
 

 Any level of nitITE is toxic, so keep changing it until you hit 0.
 
Ammonia is also toxic, and can kill fish.
 
Neither your ammonia or nitrite should be above .25 ppm at any time. Please do plenty of water changes.
 
Daily changes are a must. This is why fish-in cycling tanks a while. The filter only deals with a bit at a time, and why (most) recomend fishless cycling.
 
Please please please do changes everyday until the tank is cycled. I would do 75% daily, just to make sure

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Please stop with the 0/0 stuff as it simply is not true in terms of cycling. Some levels of ammonia can be tolerated for some time. How much and how long depends on the fish, the pH and the temp of the water. Nitrite can be counteracted with chloride. If the fish have nitrite problems, it doesn't matter if you change lots of water or add sufficient chloride to block the nitrite, it will still take 24-72 hours to flush out the nitrite already in the fish.
 
Cycling with fish is a real dance. You need to change as little water as possible yet you also need to deal with ammonia and nitrite correctly. If you do not know about NH3 vs NH4, if you do not know how to combat nitrite using chloride, you should not be cycling with fish.

 

[Blondielovesfish]

Please listen to TwoTankAmin, he knows what he's talking about.
 
As horrible as it may be to be told that your fish may be suffering, you need to listen. 
TTA has done years and years of research into this stuff, he's practically an expert on all things cycling! 
Please take his advice, he has the best interests of your fish at heart and is only trying to stop them suffering from ammonia and nitrite poisoning. 

 

[sawickib]

Is a expert IMO*