Cycling My New Tank

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KroMe_NInjA_

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Hello all. I have started cycling my new aquarium which is 90l, I have used pre existing media (bio filter) and some driftwood from my old tank. The cyck currently looks like it is on the right track but I was just wondering if anyone could let me know also. Thanks
 
I know the ammonia was too high as a starting point as i added to much, but I had no declorinator to do a water change at the time.
 
 
 

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I would say it's on the right track, To the point where I'd try topping up the ammonia soon.
 
That's quite a fast cycle as well but am not shocked if you are using old media :p
 
techen said:
I would say it's on the right track, To the point where I'd try topping up the ammonia soon.
 
That's quite a fast cycle as well but am not shocked if you are using old media
tongue2.gif
OK thanks for your post :) And yes its old media from my previous tank, what should I top the ammonia up to roughly? Thanks again
 
Normally a lot of people prefer keeping ammonia at around 3 PPM. I'd let it drop a little more, No idea how much it will drop by the next day but by looking at the data I would say a fair bit :p
 
techen said:
Normally a lot of people prefer keeping ammonia at around 3 PPM. I'd let it drop a little more, No idea how much it will drop by the next day but by looking at the data I would say a fair bit
tongue2.gif
I'll probbaly top it up abit tomorrow to reach 3 PPM, it has been dropping very fast wasn't really expecting this :p
 
I am a bit nervous about the numbers you report. Especially the lack of nitrite. Normally the bacteria live together in a biofilm along with a host of other beneficial bacteria. What makes this important is that in a cycled tank there is a proper balance between the ammonia and nitrite converting bacteria. This is how a tank turns ammonia straight to nitrate with no reading for them showing on our test kits. The point is when we seed a tank with items from an established than there should be a balance between the incoming bacteria such that the amount of ammonia it can process is balanced by and equal amount of nitrite converters.
 
The next part of this all is that, in the absence of plants which would also use the ammonia but not produce any nitrite from it, 1 ppm of ammonia can convert to 2.55 ppm if nitrite and finally 3.46 ppm of nitrate. Now even if your tank had a mysterious surplus of nitrite bacteria such that it could convert more nitrite than the ammonia ones can make, the end result is still nitrate. So if your 7.3 ppm is indeed a real reading, it means it will turn into 18.6 ppm of nitrite and finally to 25+ ppm of nitrate. Now look at your numbers and you will see why I am confused. Especially since the ammonia bacs reproduce noticeably faster than the nitrite ones.
 
What compounds this is the fact that as the ammonia notched down, we see no nitrite to speak of and a scant 1 ppm of nitrate. I know of no hobby kit on which it would be possible to get a 1 ppm reading. The human eyes are not that good at color perception to be able to discern such minute color shifts. Most kits start at 5 ppm or higher I believe. And even then their accuracy is notoriously poor compared to the other kits.
 
But even the behavior of the ammonia does not make sense. Ammonia itself in excess of 5 ppm doesn't stop the ammonia bacs from working, the danger is that the nitrite levels it produces will. However, the ammonia bacs you seeded would have been in good shape and able to work immediately. Yet in the 1st 24 hours you report a 0 drop while in the 2nd 24 the ammonia drops by 1/3 and this is also not possible. But it gets weirder. Consider that the longer the process lasts, the more ammonia bacs one has so the more ammonia they can process each day, and then look at your numbers:
 
Day 1- 7.3
Day 2- 7.3 change = 0
Day 3- 4.9 change = -2.4
Day 4- 3.6 change = -1.3
Day 5- 2.0 change = -1.6
 
Again this makes no sense. If the bacteria could convert 2.4 ppm on day 3 how can they not do so on days 4 and 5.
 
I would ask you to post:
1. Size of the tank.
2. Brand of dechlor.
3. Brand of test kits.
4. Strength of the ammonia used and the ml (not ppm) amount you added.
 
With that info I can offer you a simple way to proceed from here which will provide a better idea of where the tank may stand. My hunch is there is some bacteria at work, the numbers you reported are not correct and that a reset of the tank will show what may actually be up.
 
TwoTankAmin said:
I am a bit nervous about the numbers you report. Especially the lack of nitrite. Normally the bacteria live together in a biofilm along with a host of other beneficial bacteria. What makes this important is that in a cycled tank there is a proper balance between the ammonia and nitrite converting bacteria. This is how a tank turns ammonia straight to nitrate with no reading for them showing on our test kits. The point is when we seed a tank with items from an established than there should be a balance between the incoming bacteria such that the amount of ammonia it can process is balanced by and equal amount of nitrite converters.
 
The next part of this all is that, in the absence of plants which would also use the ammonia but not produce any nitrite from it, 1 ppm of ammonia can convert to 2.55 ppm if nitrite and finally 3.46 ppm of nitrate. Now even if your tank had a mysterious surplus of nitrite bacteria such that it could convert more nitrite than the ammonia ones can make, the end result is still nitrate. So if your 7.3 ppm is indeed a real reading, it means it will turn into 18.6 ppm of nitrite and finally to 25+ ppm of nitrate. Now look at your numbers and you will see why I am confused. Especially since the ammonia bacs reproduce noticeably faster than the nitrite ones.
 
What compounds this is the fact that as the ammonia notched down, we see no nitrite to speak of and a scant 1 ppm of nitrate. I know of no hobby kit on which it would be possible to get a 1 ppm reading. The human eyes are not that good at color perception to be able to discern such minute color shifts. Most kits start at 5 ppm or higher I believe. And even then their accuracy is notoriously poor compared to the other kits.
 
But even the behavior of the ammonia does not make sense. Ammonia itself in excess of 5 ppm doesn't stop the ammonia bacs from working, the danger is that the nitrite levels it produces will. However, the ammonia bacs you seeded would have been in good shape and able to work immediately. Yet in the 1st 24 hours you report a 0 drop while in the 2nd 24 the ammonia drops by 1/3 and this is also not possible. But it gets weirder. Consider that the longer the process lasts, the more ammonia bacs one has so the more ammonia they can process each day, and then look at your numbers:
 
Day 1- 7.3
Day 2- 7.3 change = 0
Day 3- 4.9 change = -2.4
Day 4- 3.6 change = -1.3
Day 5- 2.0 change = -1.6
 
Again this makes no sense. If the bacteria could convert 2.4 ppm on day 3 how can they not do so on days 4 and 5.
 
I would ask you to post:
1. Size of the tank.
2. Brand of dechlor.
3. Brand of test kits.
4. Strength of the ammonia used and the ml (not ppm) amount you added.
 
With that info I can offer you a simple way to proceed from here which will provide a better idea of where the tank may stand. My hunch is there is some bacteria at work, the numbers you reported are not correct and that a reset of the tank will show what may actually be up.
Hello, thank you for your reply.
 
The size of the tank is: 90l
Brand of the dechlor is: Tetra aqua safe
Brand of the test kit: Nutrafin mini master test kit
and the ammonia was jeyes kleen off ammonia, I have read that this is about 9% ammonia. I'm not sure of the ml as I used a pipette, since then I have got a syringe for this.
 
Hope this helps in some way. And I was also wondering why it was suddenly dropping more so on different days.
 
That is exactly the problem I was pointing out. There should also have been more nitrite and nitrate as well.
 
There is no way anybody can tell 1 ppm of nitrate on a Nutrafin kit.
 
Nutrafin makes 2 ammonia test kits as far as I know #7820 and #7855. When I check on their UK site and click more info, it links to the #7655 kit which goes from 1 - 6.5. The other ammonia kit goes to 7.3. Are you sure you have the 7.3 kit?
 
Bottom line is still if you put 7.3 ppm of ammonia in and it went down to 2.0, you should have between 15 and 20 ppm of nitrate.
 
The proper amount of 9% ammonia to put into 80 litres (10l subtracted for substrate and decor and not filling to the brim) is 2.67 ml. to create a 3 ppm level.
 
Next, AquaSafe does not detoxify ammonia when one has chrloramine in their tap water. So you get a bit of ammonia being left as a result. If you happen to have chlraomine used by your water co., any water change results in the addition of about .25 ppm of ammonia. On the plus side it also means the dechlor want be doing anything to slow the cycle.
 
So here is what I suggest, do as large a water change as you possible can. Give the tank about 30 minutes after you refill with dechlorinated water. Then test and record the results. Hopefully you will see all the readings near 0.
 
If you get any reading for ammonia, subtract that number of ppm from 3.00 and the result is the amount you want to add, the add amount. Use the site ammonia calculator to compute how much ammonia you need to add get to that number of ppm.
 
Unit = litres, Volume = 80, Desired = add amount, % of ammonia in solution = 9.0  the result will tell how many ml to put into the tank.
 
Wait about 15 minute and then test ammonia and record. In theory, there will not have been enough time for any bacteria to make the numbers for nitrite and nitrate you got after the water from being different from then. You can test if you like, of course.
 
The come back and post all your test results. Then go have fun, go to work or school or whatever tomorrow and test all 3 parameters 24 hours after you added the ammonia above. Report those 3 reading here.
 
The purpose of all this is to reset the tank so we can get some decent readings in a more controlled fashion. There should be less "noise" or chance for other things being done to interfere. In essence, we are trying to get a set of good clean numbers so we can get an idea of what is realy going on. The good part is none of this will slow down the cycle no matter in what stage it may be.
 

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