Cycling Log

[Benauld]

Hello,

I've got a 130L tank and am attempting to cycle it by "feeding" it. (i.e. adding a couple of pinches of food twice a day in a clean, washed pop sock). I know that this will take longer as the food will need to decompose to release ammonia into the water, but I've read it helps to establish a few different strains of beneficial bacteria. I'm on day four and my readings so far look like this:

Other info on the tank is: pH 7, 18ºdH, and my water (always treated prior to going into the tank) contains 10ppm nitrate from the tap.

Does this seem about right to everyone, or should I have seen a rise in ammonia by now?

Cheers!

 

[Benauld]

Actually, I think I've discoverd a slight flaw in my plan, which may be holding up proceedings. My pop socks are too high a dernier [sp?], and very little of the decomposing food seems to be leaching out . I've just looked in the bottom, and it's a big orange mush! . I think something a little less conservative may be in order... fishnet stockings perhaps?

 

[Majjie]

I wouldn't worry too much about rushing out to buy some fishnet stockings
Neither would I worry about putting the food into anything at all - just chuck it into the tank - it should all decompose anyway.

Great graph! It'll be interesting to see how things go - I've not tried this method before. Looks to me, though, as if everything's going fine. You've got detectable ammonia and nitrite. Did you do the tests on 12/2, before you added any food, and get a reading of 0? If so, your lines should extend back to there. If not - then just start the graph on 13/2. I would also use two scales on the left hand side - a smaller scale for the ammonia and nitrite and a separate, larger one, for the nitrate - otherwise you'll have no room to show much of an increase. Sorry ...... coming over all schoolmarmy

The tank will be cycled when you can't detect any ammonia or nitrite and the nitrate level has gone up.

 

[Benauld]

5 Days In...

Hi,

Thanks for the reply Majjie, I hope this next graph is a little better :

I'm a little perturbed that I haven't had any spikes in Ammonia or Nitrite within five days, I would have expected the food added on the first day to be pretty much decomposed by now? Anyway, as a result I thought I would up the physical quantity of fish food I'm adding - now putting in five pinches twice a day, so ten in total. If that fails to create some Ammonia I must have found some magical non-ammonia producing fish food! . On the serious side though, if there is no rise in Ammonia tomorrow, I might be tempted to go out and buy some.

If I don't go down that route I've also been toying with the idea of adding a tiny bit of pond water from the garden pond. My thinking being, (the risk of pathogens and other nasties aside) that it should not only contain Nitrosomas and Nitrobacter but also decomposing bacteria to help break down the fish food faster. Anyone got any advice/opinions on this?

Thanks.

 

[Majjie]

Hi Ben

See if you get any replies from people who have tried this method - but I suspect doing it this way you will always get low levels of ammonia and nitrite.

With fishless cycling the levels are artificially high. The number of bacteria built up is also likely to be artificially high and many of them probably die off as soon as the fish are added and the ammonia levels go down.

I'd be wary of adding pond water - it won't contain many bacteria - you'd have to put in actual muck from the bottom of the pond to be sure of getting bugs (and then you could get nasty ones as well). Do you know anyone who has a mature tank - to get some filter media?

If you think about it - you're putting in what ... about 500mg food per day .... about 50% of which will be protein and about 16% of the protein will be nitrogen - which - when the food decomposes - forms the ammonia. That's about 40mg nitrate available to form ammonia. In 130 litres that's not a lot. I know it's only a very vague estimate - but you get my drift?

The important thing is ...... when will the ammonia and nitrite disappear?

 

[vinylman]

BTW, don't stop keeping a log when the tank has finished cycling; keep a record of everything you do in the tank (dated of course), if you have any problems later on it will probably give you a clue as to what went wrong.

 

[Benauld]

7 Days

Well, my first week over and here is the progress so far:

I'm finally seeing a rise in ammonia, but I'm having to add a LOT more food than I anticipated and have an orange "film" of food over my sand. Oh well, I'll hoover it clean as soon as it's cycled and I do a big water change. Nitrites are slowly following suit, to a lesser extent. Nitrates resolutely remaining at ten though...

I'm hoping that all the remaining food doesn't get decomposed all at once, as it were, and release too much ammonia into the tank...

 

[WILDER]

Why don't you put a few prawns in a net bag, you change then every few days.

 

[Benauld]

I thought fish food would decompose faster due to it's higher surface area, but then again I suppose prawns do have a higher protein content. I may try the prawns if ammonia fails to increase again tomorrow.

Cheers!

 

[WILDER]

Use a brand new washing powder net as they make a mess if there not in a bag.
Good luck.

 

[Benauld]

Day 9

Hello everyone, this is how things stand today:

The ammonia has finally increased to substantial levels, but still nowhere near the 5ppm(?) talked of in some of the cycling methods that I've read. I'm really concerned about the amount of food I'm having to add. I've gone through 3/4rs of a tub of Tetra Prima Complete Food in 9 days! Does that sound right to anyone?

Anyway the upshot is I've gone and bought some household ammonia. Does anybody know how many drops would be required to raise 130L of water to 1ppm with a 9.5% ammonia solution. Ammonia is currently at 3ppm, so I'm going to have to do some delicate calculations to up it to 5ppm. Then of course I'll have to up the amount, after the rest of the food has decomposed as I wont be putting food in any longer. I'm REALLY tempted to remove as much of the food as possible from the sand do a BIG water change and start again with household ammonia. Any advice out there?

On the plus side I have seen a rise in nitrates so some of those nitrites are finally being converted!

 

[Benauld]

Hi

I'd appreciate it if somebody could double check the following maths and point out any glaring mistakes! (My maths is c$*p!)

1.] 1ml = 1g.

2.] I have a tank which holds 130L.

3.] To raise ammonia to 1g/L (OR 1ml/L see above) = 130ml

4.] 130ml x 5 = 650ml = 5g/L

Is this correct? The only aspect I haven't accounted for is concentration of the ammonia, which is 9.5% Any ideas?

Thanks.

 

[Majjie]

Hi Ben,

It's up to you, of course - but it looks as if it's going fine to me. You can let the ammonia concentration level off now. As long as you're putting in slightly more food than you'd expect to be feeding your fish every day I don't see how you can go wrong. In fact, I'd be tempted to miss a day with adding the food and see what happens to the ammonia level - if the food is taking a long time to decompose and there's still some in the tank then adding more may not be neccessary at the moment.

You don't have to have 5 ppm ammonia to cycle a tank - you could do it equally well with 3 ppm or 2 ppm - as long as you don't let it drop to 0 for any length of time. You just have to test more regularly with the lower levels - to be sure of that.

If you want to find out how much ammonia you need to add to the tank - add a few drops to a 10 litre bucket of tank water and test that - then multiply it up to 130 litres.

I wouldn't do a water change at the moment - you need the nitrite level to stay high to encourage the nitrite eating bugs to grow. You can worry about cleaning the sand later.

 

[Majjie]

Hi

I'd appreciate it if somebody could double check the following maths and point out any glaring mistakes! (My maths is c$*p!)

1.] 1ml = 1g.

2.] I have a tank which holds 130L.

3.] To raise ammonia to 1g/L (OR 1ml/L see above) = 130ml

4.] 130ml x 5 = 650ml = 5g/L

Is this correct? The only aspect I haven't accounted for is concentration of the ammonia, which is 9.5% Any ideas?

Thanks.

I'm afraid I'm not following your calculations. The way I see it:

You have 130 litres of water in which you want 5 ppm ammonia
that = 5mg/L
but you already have 3ppm (mg/L) in there - so you only need to add another 2mg per litre: 2 x 130 = 260mg


Your ammonia solution is 9.5% which is the same as 9.5g/100mL or 9500mg/100mL or 9.5mg/mL

So: to add 260mg you need to add about 27 mL of your ammonia solution.

I still don't think it's necessary, though.
If you insist on doing it - try 2.5 ml in 10 litres of tank water first and test that. My maths isn't that great either

Edit: Whoops - I mean try 2ml in the bucket - see what I mean about my maths (and I still don't think you need to)

 

[Benauld]

Day 10

Thanks Majjie,

With maths like mine I think I'll stick to the trial and error in bucket method you suggest!

Anyway, here is my graph for today. I've melded two different graphs together. The scale was the same but I enlarged the top one slightly more by accident, which is why it kicks out at the end into what looks like the 24/02. I've also changed the style, those curved lines were lying the straight ones don't! :

I've decided to follow your advice and give it a rest on the food for a bit, to see how quickly the ammonia and nitrite levels drop. After all, the ammonia wont go anywhere will it? The only "escape route" for it is to be converted into nitrite then nitrate. Once they hit zero again I'll try adding some more ammonia, except I don't think I'll use food next time just the bottled solution.

Many thanks once again for all the help! It's so nerve wracking watching your tank descend into something that looks like the scotch broth my gran used to make! Still, as long as the chemistry and biology are right to start with, I can worry about other water parameters later!