Cycle

[rewlyn]

i did tests on cycle by Hagan, he results were
ammonia: 0ppm
nitrItes: 0ppm
nitrAtes: 10-20ppm

now if im right nitrite requires ammonia for food, which create nitrates, which feed of nitrites, so if you put nitrates in your tank wont it help create nitrites from the ammonia to create its own food supply.


correct me if im wrong but it sounds logical to me

 

[fatheadminnow]

Ammonia -> Nitrite -> Nitrate.

Without Ammonia, there would be no nitrite and ultimately no nitrate.

Nitrate is the end product of the nitrogen cycle.

The Nitrogen cycle works only one way, which is Ammonia -> Nitrite -> Nitrate, without the previous product/food source, the next product in line will not occur.

So, putting just pure NitrAte into a tank is not going to have any effect on the Nitrite or Ammonia level in the tank, it is a completely separate product form the two besides the means of which it comes into existence.

Also, we do not want any measurable source of Ammonia or NitrIte in our tanks, so there should really be no reason as to why one would want a measurable source of Ammonia or Nitrites in a tank.

IMO, in conclusion, adding pure NitrAte to a tank is not going to have any effects on Nitrite or Ammonia.

And remember, it is the Bacteria in our filters that we are feeding and not the ammonia or nitrite.

I hope this makes sense for ya?

-FHM

 

[rewlyn]

cool, just a thought

 

[saz326]

I did think that possibly - and i mean possibly, the reason for the nitrate reading could be that the "ready mixed bacteria" are in a suspended state. Maybe the batch of "cycle" is made by allowing ammonia and nitrite to all be used up until the bacteria are grown (thus the nitrate) and somehow the resultant mix is put into suspended animation.......?

..they do it with brine shrimp eggs so i guess it could be done with bacteria.

although i would expect to see an expiry date on the bottle if this was the case. (And old bottles used to say on them "Store in refridgerator after opening" and they did have an expiry date so I wonder if the formulation has changed)

 

[Craster]

I did think that possibly - and i mean possibly, the reason for the nitrate reading could be that the "ready mixed bacteria" are in a suspended state. Maybe the batch of "cycle" is made by allowing ammonia and nitrite to all be used up until the bacteria are grown (thus the nitrate) and somehow the resultant mix is put into suspended animation.......?

Consider how much of the product you pour into the tank - a few capfuls? Even if that was pure potassium nitrate it wouldn't give you 10-20ppm. I would assume that the nitrate reading in the original post is the nitrate already present in the tap water.

 

[saz326]

nah, Rewlyn tested the actual product. not tankwater., good thought tho.

edited - couldnt spell Rewlyn. too many W's

 

[Curiosity101]

And as for Nitrate being present in the product.
If we presume there was once live nitrifying bacteria in the bottle that had been cultured using an ammonia source. Maybe cultured in a giant aerated vat of water.
Some of the liquid is tapped off into the bottle.

The solution in the bottle is Nitrifying bacteria + ammonia...so what happens...
Ammonia --> Nitrite ---> Nitrate.
Then, when the ammonia and/or oxygen runs out, they die.

So 1 of two conclusions can be drawn from the test results:
A) There was once upon a time live bacteria in the bottle with an ammonia source
or
B) The solution that went into the bottle contained water from a source that already had nitrates present.

 

[loraxchick]

bacteria cannot live in suspended animation like brine shrimp. brine shrimp eggs can dry out and be viable. just like triops. its an evolutionary mechanism to survive droughts. the eggs can stay viable for a LOOONG time in the sand (say on a beach above the water line) and then when the body of water floods again the eggs become wet and hatch. bacteria, unfortunately for us fishkeepers, need a steady supply of food. when the food source runs out in the bottle, they die. thats why "cycle" and the like are not very reliable.

 

[aaronnorth]

now if im right nitrite requires ammonia for food, which create nitrates, which feed of nitrites, so if you put nitrates in your tank wont it help create nitrites from the ammonia to create its own food supply.

nitrite doesnt require ammonia for food. The bacteria nitrosomonas requires ammonia for food in order to convert it into nitrite.
same for NO2 -> NO3 except that is nitrospira bacteria.

 

[andywg]

The Nitrogen cycle works only one way, which is Ammonia -> Nitrite -> Nitrate, without the previous product/food source, the next product in line will not occur.

This is not strictly true. In anoxic conditions anaerobic bacteria will develop which convert nitrate to nitrite to ammonia and then to nitrogen gas, so the cycle can work both ways. It does appear, however, to be a linear progression both ways (so you will not normally see a single jump from ammonia to nitrate).

 

[OldMan47]

Thanks for the challenge Andy.
The benefits of anaerobic bacteria working in close proximity to plant roots are well brought out in Diana Walstad's book on the ecology of the planted aquarium but is seldom acknowledged outside a very small group that have actually read her work. The plants use the nutrients produced by the anaerobic bacteria to gain their nutrients, in sharp contrast to the usual bad reputation that anaerobic reactions gain in most forums made up of amateurs whose only experience is a deadly mix of H2S coming from anaerobic conditions in their substrates.