Cycle Complete? Or No?

snipesxxx

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I been fishless cycling since around Dec 2nd and I didn't get any nitrite reading till the end of Dec. Finally I did and they shot through the roof within a few days going up to 5ppm. Around the time 2-3ppm of ammonia was dropping to 0ppm after about 24 hours or so. Once it did I bumped it back up and continue checking it and the nitrites. I only checked the nitrites ever couple days. Well past 3-4 days the Ammonia barely moved and right now it stays at 1ppm or little lower. After checking it this morning and seeing 1ppm I thought well nitrites I am sure is still through the roof but no they are now at 0ppm which is suppose to be a good thing, yet the ammonia remains.

Anyone know what could be up?
 
drop off in your population of ABacs for some reason, there will be less nitrite produced because the of the drop off in ABacs so unfortunately it's not cycled yet.

whats your pH at?
 
2-3 weeks ago it was 7.6 and now its a 6. Which is the first time its ever been that low. I haven't checked it in weeks though.
 
Yes, normally pH is the third test you do routinely twice a day at the same time you do ammonia and nitrite(NO2) during fishless cycling. You're watching to be sure it isn't dropping too fast which would warn you of an impending crash. You've now had the crash! When pH gets down to 6.2, the cycle stalls and at 6.0 it'll be stopped altogether. At a pH below 5.5 or so there may be die-off of the bacteria. pH is driven downward by the cycling process itself.

Normally you can take care of this by simply doing a large water change (or even two, depending on what it accomplishes.) What I always did was simply siphon water out as low as I could go without losing the siphon on my cannister filter (being too lazy to turn it off, lol) and that was about a 70% removal or more. I practiced gravel-cleaning during this to get the hang of it without fish being in there. Then you can refill with tap water that's been conditioned and roughly temperature matched (during fishless I recommend those measures just because you've worked so hard to raise your bacteria, we'd hate to think one of those things might cause more bacteria to be lost.)

This water change may not immediately jumpstart your own detection of the fishless cycle process, but if it pulls the pH back up nicely then you should see renewed cycle activity after a couple days at the most. Hopefully the pH of your tap water is fairly much higher than what your tank water got down to.

~~waterdrop~~
 
Would it crashing make the nitrites drop from 5ppm to 0? I did a big water change yesterday that brought my PH backup to 7.6, ammonia 0, nitrites 0 and nitrates from 80 to 5. I added 1ppm or so of ammonia afterwards and today I am getting 0ppm ammonia, 0 nitrites and nitrates are little over 5.

What should my next step be? Add 2-3 ammonia and see what happens? If its common for the PH to drop on fishless cycles I wish most ppl would update their website/sticky because the ones I've seen doesn't mention checking PH often and making sure it stays in a stable area. I've read at least 5-6 different fishless cycling articles.
 
Hi snipesxxx,

You should definately continue your ammonia dosing in the same pattern you had been doing it prior to the water change. The water change, of course, is just one more thing that complicates how to interpret your readings, so you want to continue to dose at the 24 hour mark and then test at 12 and 24 hours after that as usual so that a valid pattern emerges. I think you will find that your A-Bacs and N-Bacs will be back to performing good drops as it sounds like you are getting really far along in your fishless cycle. It sounded from your post like you had lessened your dosing to 2-3ppm during the nitrite spike phase and were starting to ease it back up to 5ppm dosing for the end, right? That's an excellent way and I think you should probably be at 3-4ppm dosing right now, heading toward 5ppm.

[Just a side note here to you and any other curious readers: this "varible dosing" where you drop down to 2-3ppm during the nitrite spike rather than just plugging along always at 5ppm during the entire fishless cycle, is just an "optional fine tuning" type of thing, we hope it makes things a little faster but there is absolutely nothing wrong with just plugging along at 5ppm the whole way and there is no speed-up really proven really, from this fine-tuning thing, just a hunch on the part of some of us. The down side of it is that it confuses the heck out of some readers, lol.]

snipes, you make a valid criticism of our communication of the overall fishless cycling process/instructions I think. I sometimes daydream that the ideal forum software for TFF (or some future software for -any- web forum) would contain a "wiki" component for handling a subset of "collective knowledge of the forum" articles, ideally a few for each subforum of TFF. Basically, I'd picture that as an enhancement of the "pinned article" approach. Pinned articles are far from ideal as "collective knowledge devices" because the followup posts can be confusing to beginners, the pinned article only has one author and certainly there are many more criticisms one could make. I imagine (in my daydream) that a "wikipedia page" is a more ideal device, but I'm not a "wiki software" expert, so I'm not sure.

Now, to continue with this "wiki/pinned" criticism topic, I'd like to say that its an imperfect world out there and hobbyists have to take what they can get. The most important thing about TFF is that we've got a great bunch of members who have together seemingly been able to be relaxed, helpful and conversational in a friendly way, which is not always the case out there. TFF somehow manages to keep the subject centered on the hobby and on sharing... "playing well with others" as we learned in kindergarden I guess, lol. Oh well, sorry to go so far off topic with my daydream thing but I guess another thing I want to say is that our working document from RDD is really masterful in being a compromise between not having enough info versus being too technical to hold a beginner's attention. So there is valid reason to be very reluctant to make changes for the most part I'd say. Over time I've become quite used to the give and take, dialog, method of imparting all the details. It does, though, have its faults, as you validly point out I believe.

(gee, I think its a good time to "go to lunch" :lol: )
~~waterdrop~~
 
Yeah just keep an eye on the pH, if it starts dropping again then do more water changes to bring it back up and we can discuss options with you.
 

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