Current Tank Purchase

[alterity]

Someone is offering to sell a tank to me. The deal is VERY GOOD comes with everything that is allowing it to currently run. It has four fish (A clown, a tang, a damsel, and a rabbit fish)and some live rock. My question is this: This large 55g tank is just too good of a deal to pass up. I couldn't buy a 20g tank alone for the price I can buy this setup for. However, how would I go about moving this? Should I start a small tank now that is running and go through the nitrogen stabilization and put the fish in there in about a month then move the big tank go through the cycle on that one again and then put the fish back in? Please give me any ideas. I have dealt with FW for a while this is my first foray into SW.
Thanks,
Eric

 

[SkiFletch]

to the salty side of life Eric. Sounds like you've found yourself a good deal. If I may ask, what exactly is included other than the tank and fish you listed? Possible items like Live Rock (LR), type of substrate, any mechanical filtration, protein skimmers, RO units, lighting, cleanup crew members, heaters, test kits, salinity measuring device (refractometer or hydrometer), hood, stand, chiller, corals would all be good to know if the tank has them before you buy it. Also the tank's age and especially the previous owner's maintenance regime are paramount things to know before diving into a used tank.

Some materials you'll need for the move:
TOWELS
Buckets or large CLEAN plastic storage bins
Pure RO water
Properly mixed and heated saltwater
More buckets/bins (empty ones)
More water
Gravel vaccuum

Empty spot for the tank/stand/canopy in your house
Appropriately sized car/truck/van
Lots of crossed fingers

If you do decide to do this, what you should do on the day of the move is bring over lots of buckets of mixed and heated saltwater and remove the rock from the display tank and put it in these buckets. Do not stack rock on top of each other in the bins/buckets, you dont want it tumbling around, it should all be resting on the bottom of the vessel. Then, drain the tank into some empty buckets/bins and bring the tank water home with you. Put the fish in this water. I'm also going to assume that the old tank water has good chemistry and that we can therefore re-use it. If it has high phosphates/nitrates, or other problems, dont bother bringing it home with you. Leave just a little water in the tank along with the sand bed and put that in your vehicle as well. Finally pack up the rest of the hardware and stand/hood and trek it all back to your home with the car well heated. Make it stifling if you have to

When you get home, you're going to want to setup the tank and pour say 10 gallons of mixed heated saltwater into the tank and let it settle. Make sure you have a foam pad under the tank if it needs one before you go filling it up. Meanwhile you will want to setup yoru buckets/bins with old tank water near the display tank. Bring over the buckets with the rocks, and shake them around inside their buckets to remove detritus and then put them back in the old tank water buckets (now you can stack if you have to, I hope your floor isnt going to move ). You'll probably want to put the fish in their own buckets while you do this . Once all the rocks have been thoroughly shaken for detritus and placed back in old tank water, toss the now detritus full buckets you used to transport them in (just the water, save the buckets ). At this time, the sand in the display tank should be somewhat settled. Proceed to gravel vaccuum the sand bed as it will be FULL of detritus and ultimately toss the nasty detritus laiden water.

Once the sandbed is vacuumed, start re-building whatever rock scaping you want. Make SURE the rocks are pushed through the sand so that they rest on the bottom glass for a foundation. If they dont rest on the glass, they will settle over time in the sand and possible topple the stack. Once the rock scaping is finished, install heaters, powerheads, and other mechanical filtration, fill the tank about 3/4 full with old tank water and put the fish in. If we had to throw out the old tank water cause it had bad chemistry, acclimate the fish to the new water first. Fill the tank the rest of the way with new clean properly mixed saltwater, and cross your fingers . Dont turn lights on for the first day to allow the fish to rest.

Obviuosly the largest issues you should be concerned with are transporting rockwork in heated saltwater, removing any and all detritus (ESPECIALLY if the tank is old and/or the owner was lazy about maintenance), transferring fish in old tank water (and re-acclimating them properly to the new tank, and of course having spare RO water and saltwater for when something doesnt go as planned.

One other thing to consider, a 55g tank is too small for any fullgrown Tang, so you might want to take it back to the LFS for credit instead of putting it in the tank when you set it up. Chances are it would struggle to survive the move in a tank as small as yours. 75g is MINIMUM for some Tangs, while other species require 100g+ tanks.

Good luck and make sure you ask lots of questions of both us and the previous owner before committing to buy it.

 

[alterity]

Ok well wow. Thanks for the details! Alright let's see here. First of all, after talking to someone at the LFS today, I made the decision to purchase a 29g starter tank. The reason for this was the fact that it was on sale for an excellent price and I figured that I could use the tank as a learning experience in the next few weeks, it also fit perfect into another spot in my home. Tonight I put the thing together and placed the live sand in the base and the salt. The filter is running. The guy said I can start putting Live Rock into it in a few days is this correct? He also said in about a week I could even get potentially a couple captive bred clowns and maybe a starfish. Is this correct? I'm patient I understand this is a waiting game. I don't mind doing things right. But obviously if I can go and put something into my tank, I'd love to.

Now...Back to the 55g. After speaking to the owner this evening, I got some more details. First of all there is no live rock. The tank has been around for about a year and three months. The owner also said this would be the third move for the tank, with the same fish. So obviously they are hearty and can handle the move. It also sounds like the owner handled things as you suggested on the previous moves. That changed my mind as to what I was originally going to do. After all the reading I had done, it scared me into thinking that moving them was just going to kill them. But then while at the LFS I also considered something else. The 55g has a gorgeous large enclosed stand. And everything I read is to do a sump. Should I attempt to put the clown and the damsel into the 29g tank, sell the other two to the LFS, completely drain the 55g cut holes and do a sump? Or forget that?

Now the real big time questions? I know I should do water changes often depending on what else I put in my reef, what is the appropriate way to do this? How often should I do the various different tests? I read somewhere that if you put together the right mix of life in your aquarium it's possible you could only have to do a large cleaning only once every 2 years or so, true? Is there a good book I should buy that will identify bad forms of algae from the good stuff? Ideally in my new small tank I'd like 2 clowns, an anenome for them to play in, and a couple crabs to keep things clean for me. Maybe a seahorse? I read they are amazing algae eaters. Will that work? Then in the big one, I'd like definitely some corals, anenomes, 4 clowns, 2 blue hippo tangs, a couple triggers, and some cleaners. Does this sound reasonable? I guess from what you said before the Tangs shouldn't be in a 55g?

Heh, you said ask questions, so I have .

Sorry for the barrage. I'm just willing to do what it takes to do it right if I'm lead in the right direction. By the way, I guess finally I should ask this. The tank I mentioned that's 55g is $300 with the heater filters fish sand and gravel. Do I go for that (it really is a good deal isn't it?) or now that I have the 29g to keep me happy for a little while do I go for the 128g with built in holes for a sump system that was on sale at the LFS. $600 for the tank and stand. It's all the other little stuff that I have no clue how much it costs. I have a tendancy to feel the little stuff will add up to big bucks though? I'm comfortable spending anything up to a $1000 but that's my hard limit. (that's fish filters heaters everything.)

Again THANK YOU SO MCUH FOR YOUR HELP. It's invaluable.

Eric

 

[SkiFletch]

So the $300 does NOT have stand, hood, lights, LR, or an RO unit? If you're missin all those, its not really all that great of a deal. You can get a used 55g for like $80, sand for $40, heater $20 damsel for $10, tang for $30, clownfish for $15, and rabbitfish for $30, so a grand total of $225 for all that he lists there (most external filters are not worth it in saltwater hence I'm not including it). If he's throwin in a stand, lights and/or hood it becomes a little better of a deal, but still nothing I'd write home about.

Where in the States are you from?

A $1000 budget is going to limit you to around the 50 gallon FOWLR area a tang and triggerfish are out of the question in a tank that size unfortunately, but you can still do a lot with wrasses, pygmy angels, gobies, clowns, and other fish. I'd be looking into a used 50g breeder tank and buying LR also used. A standard 55g tank is pretty tall and thin which is somewhat difficult to work with when you're trying to stack rocks and make a cool looking environment. The 50g breeder is shorter and wider (front to back) and generally much easier to work with. Here in the states you can usually get LR from somebody breaking down their tank at around $3/lb depending on your locale. You may have to wait for it, but you can do it. You can also always proceed with the 29g to start and slowly build a larger tank as money and used items become more available .

hope that helps

 

[Ter]

*

*Ok well wow. Thanks for the details! Alright let's see here. First of all, after talking to someone at the LFS today, I made the decision to *purchase a 29g starter tank. The reason for this was the fact that it was on sale for an excellent price and I figured that I could use the tank as *a learning experience in the next few weeks, it also fit perfect into another spot in my home. Tonight I put the thing together and placed the live *sand in the base and the salt. The filter is running. The guy said I can start putting Live Rock into it in a few days is this correct? He also said in *about a week I could even get potentially a couple captive bred clowns and maybe a starfish. Is this correct? I'm patient I understand this is a *waiting game. I don't mind doing things right. But obviously if I can go and put something into my tank, I'd love to.

is this live rock cured?... starfish? what kind? most starfish need an established aquarium with good algae growth. what type of a lighting system do you have?

*Now...Back to the 55g. After speaking to the owner this evening, I got some more details. First of all there is no live rock. The tank has been *around for about a year and three months. The owner also said this would be the third move for the tank, with the same fish. So obviously they *are hearty and can handle the move. It also sounds like the owner handled things as you suggested on the previous moves. That changed my *mind as to what I was originally going to do. After all the reading I had done, it scared me into thinking that moving them was just going to kill *them. But then while at the LFS I also considered something else. The 55g has a gorgeous large enclosed stand. And everything I read is to do *a sump. Should I attempt to put the clown and the damsel into the 29g tank, sell the other two to the LFS, completely drain the 55g cut holes *and do a sump? Or forget that?

sounds like a great idea... however.. what type of damsel.. some can be very annoying!

*Now the real big time questions? I know I should do water changes often depending on what else I put in my reef, what is the appropriate way *to do this? How often should I do the various different tests? I read somewhere that if you put together the right mix of life in your aquarium it's *possible you could only have to do a large cleaning only once every 2 years or so, true? Is there a good book I should buy that will identify bad *forms of algae from the good stuff? Ideally in my new small tank I'd like 2 clowns, an anenome for them to play in, and a couple crabs to keep *things clean for me. Maybe a seahorse? I read they are amazing algae eaters. Will that work? Then in the big one, I'd like definitely some *corals, anenomes, 4 clowns, 2 blue hippo tangs, a couple triggers, and some cleaners. Does this sound reasonable? I guess from what you said *before the Tangs shouldn't be in a 55g?

first off do know what "RO water" is? if so, you will need it, don't waste your time with tap water. A good cleaning crew is priceless and will help you along the way with most of the algae and excess waste and food.
2 clowns okay.
anenome you need a stable tank and again whats your lighting setup?

crabs lots of them blue(some say the they are aggressive I have them in my tank and have seen none of that) and scarlet crabs hermit crabs, turbo snails, ect.. some say 1 crew member per gallon clearly that all depends on what you like... don't get 50 turbo snails but mix it up... they sell nice packages on the net.
seahorse forget about it

*Then in the big one, I'd like definitely some *corals, anenomes, 4 clowns, 2 blue hippo tangs, a couple triggers, and some cleaners. Does this *sound reasonable?

no hippo tangs grow to about 1 foot and triggers are very aggressive and large.

you talked about live rock... do you want this 2 be a reef? or fish only?

*Sorry for the barrage. I'm just willing to do what it takes to do it right if I'm lead in the right direction. By the way, I guess finally I should ask *this. The tank I mentioned that's 55g is $300 with the heater filters fish sand and gravel. Do I go for that (it really is a good deal isn't it?) or *now that I have the 29g to keep me happy for a little while do I go for the 128g with built in holes for a sump system that was on sale at the LFS. *$600 for the tank and stand. It's all the other little stuff that I have no clue how much it costs. I have a tendancy to feel the little stuff will add *up to big bucks though? I'm comfortable spending anything up to a $1000 but that's my hard limit. (that's fish filters heaters everything.)

good deal... hummm... i've seen 55gallons for about 120$ at my LFS as for the filter it depends if you want a reef or not.. live rock acts as your filter. but its good 2 start with one nevertheless.. I had one for about 3 months... once i had all my live rock and powerheads setup i removed it... so don't spend much money on that. just a hang on the back filter. But thats me esp if your going in the way of a sump... not everyone agrees with that.

as for the money it never stops

128gallons means a lot or live rock.... 600$ thats without lights.. just with the lights u top the 1000$ easy.. forget the live rock, salt mix.. protein skimmer, powerheads, heater, pipes for the sump, return pump, sand for your 128gallon, test kits ect.. and i know im forgetn some... but u will top 1000$ if u go the reef way with corals
Ter

 

[Miss Wiggle]

right there's one thing you guys have missed that you really need to do if you decide to get this tank. go to see him, get a sample of the water from the tank, take it to your lfs and ask them to test it for everything they can, see what the tank is like.

we bought a 2nd hand full set up, didn't do this tested the water a day or so after getting it home and the nitrates were completely off the scale, worse than 100ppm it's been 3/4 months now and we've only recently got them down it's been an absolute nightmare. if u read the thread linked in my sig you'll see how much hassle it was for us at first.

if i had the choice again i would have bought a brand new set up and built it up myself, get an old tank you think it'll be easy cos it's all established, but actually if it's not been run well you just inherit a whole host of problems

 

[Ter]

SkiFletch how do you do it? its twice today! lol
maybe i just write 2 slow lol
Ter

 

[SkiFletch]

SkiFletch how do you do it? its twice today! lol
maybe i just write 2 slow lol
Ter

I had a nun teach me how to type... When you've got a box over your hands so you cant see them and a ruler positioned behind your head you learn how to type fast and accurate without needing to look at the keyboard very quickly

 

[alterity]

Alright, so after I got the pictures from the tank (she sent them this morning) I found out they do have a sump. I'm going to attach the link to the tank so you all can see what I'll be working with. Clearly it has a hood and a light as well.


http/www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLandingSi...32_718697794206

Do you think I should save my money and go from the 29g to the 128g then and pass up the 55?

Also, the 29g is very nice it has all the lights necessary. The LR is cured. They have cured and uncured and it's only about $1.50 more for the cured. I guess that's well worth it from what I've read. I also want to say that I have a current budget of $1000. That doesn't mean that I won't add to it over the coming months. I'm in a commission job. So as soon as I get paid more, I'll put more into the thing. By the way I'm in St. Louis, MO.


About the starfish, I'm sorry I forgot the type he told me. Apparently it is "Very robust" and he said this particular one is known for being able to live in a very low salt content water.

Yes I know what RO water is. You can buy it at the store in gallon jugs, Reverse Osmosis. But I know you all will laugh at this, however when I put the water into my 29g last night I used the filter on my fridge.

Really I would need say 29 crabs to clean my 29g tank? That seems like they would take over.

 

[Mr Miagi]

I guess everyone has different tastes, but I really think that tank is gross! LOL. Im going to list this, as im having a head implosion trying to remember everything.

- Wheres the LR? Its definately not in that tank. No LR in there whatso ever. Its just slate, glass ornaments, and some lava rock, which you DONT want.

- That doesnt look like a 55 to me. Anyway, youll find it difficult to aquascape with what appears to be a very shallow tank (trust me, ive two, and I hate the limited capabilities).

- Wheres the sump? I can not see any overflows/weirs, and all I see is a cannister filter hose. I dont even see a sump in the cabinet picture!

- Shocking conditions for a tang and rabbit fish. How they survive in that is questionable. I dont even see any of them in the pictures! Youd have to sell them, or trade for store credit if you want to give them the best possible conditions.

- A starfish that survives low salt content water? What a load of Sh*Te. Starfish require stable water conditions, and plenty of food, which you cannot buy, it comes from your LR and sand bed. That tank does not have sufficient food to support a starfish of anykind IMO. Many smaller reefs have difficulty keeping Starfish alive, let alone one with no LR/no seeded sand bed. And a species that can stand low salt? Why is that even a point to mention, considering your water shouldnt be "low" in salt.

- Cleanup crew wont take over, atleast not hermits. They don breed in our tanks, or atleast their larvae do not survive. Snails will breed/lay eggs, but thats no drama, ive got now hundreds from a mere 30 odd, and Ill just give them away when they get to adult size, or store credt!

SAVE you money and DO NOT buy this set up. Its alot of work, your going to need to spend ALOT to get it where it needs to be, and you might aswell do it in a larger tank, or one you can do from scratch.

 

[alterity]

I bought a GREAT piece of live rock today. It had feather dusters on it and just was amazing. After putting it in the water a shrimp jumped out and started crawling around!
Heh, I'm just excited and sharing my enthusiam here. I never in my life thought I'd be so excited about a rock
Eric

 

[SkiFletch]

You are in luck my son, St Louis has a very active reef club Saint Louis Area Saltwater Hobbyists (SLASH). Might want to head over there and say hi too since they can help you out with things from a used equipment standpoint

 

[alterity]

Wow, Thank you! I introduced myself over there.

 

[rhysiboy]

alls i can say is omg that tank is the worst saltwater tank ive ever seen. at best it looks like a badly thrown together freshwater tank. i dont thing that tank is worth the wood in the stand

 

[Redstratplayer1]

Rhys is right it looks like the 70dys but with more crapy equipment.
Atleast back then had ugfs and a basic understanding of What will kill fish.