Crazy Cycle

[LyraGuppi]

Is the cycle done?

It started with having the new filter in a mature tank. Then, after it had been placed in the new tank, it had to wait 2 weeks, so a pinch of flake was dropped in once and a while. I know, unpredictable, but we didn't have anyammonia. Two weeks later ammonia Is at 50 ppm, and Nitrates are at 20 ppm. No Nitrites. I did feed the tank the day before today, is the food still changing?* Should i do a WC? Could I add fish?
 
*From Ammonia to NItrite to Nitrate

 

[LyraGuppi]

I carried out a WC to lower the nitrates a bit.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Recheck your numbers. 50 ppm of ammonia kills the bacteria you want in a tank.
 
And everybody has ammonia in America, you can  find it anywhere. I used ammonia w/ suraftants for years with no problems despite what you read everywhere. I just did a few water changes and ran carbon and never ever had issues when fish went in.
 
The there is the fact that flakes are not really good for creating ammonia:
 

 
Using shrimp or fish food: One of the more popular fishless cycling methods is to buy a few dead shrimp at the grocery store, cut them up into chunks and add them to the aquarium. The shrimp decay, which produces ammonia to feed the nitrifying bacteria. There are a few drawbacks with this method, one being that the hobbyist really has no way to know how much ammonia is being produced by the decaying shrimp, and the aquarium does not look very good with dead shrimp laying on the bottom. Also, the organic material of the shrimp can cause bacteria blooms which turn the aquarium water cloudy. This method works but it takes time and patience and you will probably see a spike in ammonia and nitrite if you add a medium to heavy load of fish after the initial cycling. Note that some people use flake fish food instead of shrimp but this is not recommended because flake food does not have much organic material compared to shrimp and so does not add a lot of ammonia to the water, but you can use cut fish instead of shrimp.

from http/www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/how-to-start

 

[LyraGuppi]

Gah, it was .50 ppm!
 
Yeah, I know. This cycle is a bit rough, but the next tank I will use pure ammonia.
 
I tested the day of the water change, and the nitrates went down to 20.
 
Today I tested, the params are....
Ammonia: .25 ppm
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 40
 
The ammonia went down overnight, and the nitrates went up.

 

[RobRocksFishTank]

Since there is no way to measure the actual amount of ammonia being created, I would say your numbers look normal.

 

[LyraGuppi]

Since I've (I think) proven I have all three types of bacteria, would I just wait until the ammonia converts all the way into nitrate, then do a water change, then add in fish?
 
Sorry if I'm rushing it, my family wants fish in soon

 

[RobRocksFishTank]

I totally hear you. I just set-up my first tank after a long break and did a fishless cycle (almost) for the first time in my life.
 
The fact that you used food gives me an factor that I am not familiar with and from what I've seen is frowned upon for multiple reasons.
 
I would make sure that there is no food left in the tank, which probably means doing a water change?
 
Wait until ammo and nitrites are zero. Get some ammonia. I stayed away from the surfactants that TTA mentioned above. Basically, because I saw somewhere that they could contain detergent, that scared me. What TTA says about the amount does make sense. You don't need much ammonia at all in order to get to the levels prescribed for a fishless cycle.
 
This article, http://www.fishforums.net/index.php...our-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/,%C2 you everything you need to know about fishless cycling. I wish I had seen it before I started my cycle. The one I was using as a guide was missing some of the finer details that TTA included. I really messed up my cycle from day one because I overdosed the ammonia by many times because i was using the test kit improperly. That article and a little direct help from TTA kinda finished my understanding of a fishless cycle by filling in those details. Tnx again, TTA.
 
I'm pretty sure once your Ammo. and 'trites are zero, you need to check 'trates. If they are high, do an appropriate water change. Then dose Ammo. to 3 ppm. If levels are zero after 24 hours, you are cycled.

 

[LyraGuppi]

My father wonders why I would need to add ammonia if all three bacterias are working.

I totally hear you. I just set-up my first tank after a long break and did a fishless cycle (almost) for the first time in my life.
 
The fact that you used food gives me an factor that I am not familiar with and from what I've seen is frowned upon for multiple reasons.
 
I would make sure that there is no food left in the tank, which probably means doing a water change?
 
Wait until ammo and nitrites are zero. Get some ammonia. I stayed away from the surfactants that TTA mentioned above. Basically, because I saw somewhere that they could contain detergent, that scared me. What TTA says about the amount does make sense. You don't need much ammonia at all in order to get to the levels prescribed for a fishless cycle.
 
This article, you everything you need to know about fishless cycling. I wish I had seen it before I started my cycle. The one I was using as a guide was missing some of the finer details that TTA included. I really messed up my cycle from day one because I overdosed the ammonia by many times because i was using the test kit improperly. That article and a little direct help from TTA kinda finished my understanding of a fishless cycle by filling in those details. Tnx again, TTA.
 
I'm pretty sure once your Ammo. and 'trites are zero, you need to check 'trates. If they are high, do an appropriate water change. Then dose Ammo. to 3 ppm. If levels are zero after 24 hours, you are cycled.

Meant to be quoted up there ^^^^

 

[RobRocksFishTank]

I wondered the same thing.
 
The point of a fishless cycle is to mimic a bioload of fish in the tank without exposing them to the high levels that happen during a cycle. You need enough bacteria to process the daily load. Ammonia and Nitrites should be processed fully within 24 hours.
 
That being said, every other tank I have set up has been done with fish. I made it a point, every time, to stock the tank very slowly. I messed up my fishless cycle and got tired of messing around. I was at a similar point as you except my Nitrites were were off the chart for what seemed to be an extended period. Once the Nitrites dropped to zero, I added some fish. I did not want to wait for the 24 hour cycle to be confirmed. Day four and all is good. Let me stress that I put in a very small amount of fish for the tank size. It was eleven 3/4" to 1" fish in a 120 gallon tank.
 
Resist the urge to rush it but if you do, take it slow.

 

[LyraGuppi]

Sorry if I'm asking too many questions, but I'm still confused. My dad doesn't want to buy ammonia, so would this work?
Wait until all the ammo and nitrites have converted into nitrates, then do a WC to get rid of the nitrates. Add a small amount if fish, slowly working up to the main stocking over a number of days ir weeks?

I wondered the same thing.
 
The point of a fishless cycle is to mimic a bioload of fish in the tank without exposing them to the high levels that happen during a cycle. You need enough bacteria to process the daily load. Ammonia and Nitrites should be processed fully within 24 hours.
 
That being said, every other tank I have set up has been done with fish. I made it a point, every time, to stock the tank very slowly. I messed up my fishless cycle and got tired of messing around. I was at a similar point as you except my Nitrites were were off the chart for what seemed to be an extended period. Once the Nitrites dropped to zero, I added some fish. I did not want to wait for the 24 hour cycle to be confirmed. Day four and all is good. Let me stress that I put in a very small amount of fish for the tank size. It was eleven 3/4" to 1" fish in a 120 gallon tank.
 
Resist the urge to rush it but if you do, take it slow.

And terribly sorry, again, if I'm being too impatient.
Should I be putting plants in?

 

[RobRocksFishTank]

A gallon of ammonia is about $1.00. Cost should not be an issue. If he doesn't want it around, use what you need to finish the cycle and throw the rest out. I plan on using mine for household cleaning.
 
A few weeks is not enough time to expect to be able to stock a tank fully, unless you complete the fishless cycle as prescribed in that article. I've always stocked my tanks over a period of many months. Fishless cycling allows you to fully stock the tank all at once or over a short period of time. Your plan is too quick to not finish the cycle before adding fish.

Plants can be added and will speed up the cycle. You may have to lower the dosage of Ammo., if plants are present. Check the article.

 

[LyraGuppi]

WC

Wait until ammo and nitrites are at zero.

If NA is high, do a WC and dose 3 ppms of ammo.

If all is zero after a day, it is cycled?
And another question, the article didn't say anything about plants. Should I dose something around 2 ppms with plants?

 

[RobRocksFishTank]

Yes and can be fully stocked.
 
Someone will weigh in, if I am wrong.

2ppm is what someone else told me. I thought it was in the article, sorry.

Plants will have some more bacteria for you and they process 'trites and 'trates.

 

[LyraGuppi]

Oooooooh my goshness thank you bunches!

Me and my dad are now on the same page. we shall do that!

 

[RobRocksFishTank]

Okay, glad to help.
 
Make sure you are ready to provide for the plants or get some extremely hardy ones.
 
Good luck!