Could Never Keep Saltwater Fish Alive

[herrrerrera]

Ive had a 120gallon freshwater tank for 6years, with 2 oscars and 1 blue gill i caught from the pond years ago. ive never had any problems.. however prior to this set-up it used to be salt water, which i tried for about 6months, went through about 11-15 fish, non of them lived more than a month, so i gave up, and changed to my current freshwater set-up..

I went to a new pet store that had opened today and they had tons of amazing salt water fish. and it completely rised interest in them again..
I gave up the first time cause i could not figure out what i did wrong. and they guy that got me started, said it was very easy to maintain and care for saltwater, just to buy one of those plastic salt/water regulator guages make sure the gauge on the needle always points to safe level..

Obviously there was more to know than that.. or did i just have bad luck? or are salt water fish very fragile and die easy??
can anyone give me the quick saltwater 101 of what i need to know?

i also remember once every few months i would get these little bugs that stuck to the glass and would multiply rapidly..

was it maybe a filtration issue?

i always took in samples of water to get tested, and they always said it looked fine. sometimes i would have a little high nitrate ? sp?? level. and that was from not changing water quite frequintly enough.

so should i give salt water another shot? is it really harder to maintain saltwater tanks over fresh water?? what did i do wrong?

or should i just stick with freshwater. thanks

 

[daveo_irl]

I am new to saltwater, but what I have learned so far is to make sure to research all aspects of it and maintain your testing/water change routine to as high a level as possible.
Also you mentioned that you wouldn't always do your water change, and that you got your water tested at the lfs? Well, it depends on the tank size I suppose but for me (nano tank) I would ALWAYS perform my weekly 25% water change and monitor my own water parameters with a good set of test kits.

I think if you want to get the best out of the expertise on this forum you will need to post as much detail about your last setup as possible which might give clues as to why the fish kept dying. Tank volume, filter system, lighting, SG, temp - everything and anything.

I hope you return to the salty side and it turns out better for you this time, use this forum for any questions as the people here are very knowledgable and very helpful.

 

[Anguilla82]

as above really, regarding more specifics of your last system.
But a couple of things stand out.

firstly the 'bugs' were probably copepods, which are good guys, and free food for your fish.

secondly the thing with a needle to measure salinity would have been a hydrometer, which are notoriously bad at being accurate. A refractometer (although a little bit more expensive) is a must.

Saltwater fishkeeping isn't really that difficult but as dave said it is impotant to regularly test (especially in the first few months).

Filtration is commonly done via the 'Berlin' method these days. which involves the use of circulation from powerheads and a good amount of live rock. with this method you have no need for filter pads etc. which tend to cause a build up of nitrates if not replaced regularly.

this forum has some really knowledgeable people on it that are always willing to help, so if you do decide to come back to the salty side we're all here to help. just keep the questions coming.

Rob

P.S. photos are a must i'm afraid!

 

[Luketendo]

To be honest without knowing about your system would be hard to point out things...

Just some ideas:

1. Did you use RO water?
2. Did you use live stock?
3. Did you use enough flow?
etc...

Anyway personally I think marine keeping is easy, well the fish anyway (do not have corals yet.) The cycling business is easy since the live rock does it for you and much better than filter bacteria imo. I have not lost any marine fish but when I started tropicals I lost plenty.

As said above if you wanted to start again help will be given and mistakes can be pointed out .

 

[herrrerrera]

as above really, regarding more specifics of your last system..

firstly the 'bugs' were probably copepods, which are good guys, and free food for your fish.

secondly the thing with a needle to measure salinity would have been a hydrometer, which are notoriously bad at being accurate. A refractometer (although a little bit more expensive) is a must.

Filtration is commonly done via the 'Berlin' method these days. which involves the use of circulation from powerheads and a good amount of live rock. with this method you have no need for filter pads etc. which tend to cause a build up of nitrates if not replaced regularly.

P.S. photos are a must i'm afraid!

well its been a 6years, but the salt water tank was actually a 38gallon whisper tank. with an additional 110GPH filter.
also just from browsing this forum, i came across someone who also had copepods, and they said it was from a bad PH level, and low oxygen?? what would cause that?

unfortunately i dont have any pics from my salt water tank. but i had the tank covered in live rock, as for fish i went through 3 tangs 3 triggers several clowns and several anenamies sp?


and whats the Berlin method? power heads? is that the external filtration system that you keep under tank stand? i saw one today at the LFS it said it had protien skimmers?? what is that?

anyway i would like to salt again, and would use my 120gallon, if i can keep them alive for more than a year, i would fork out for my dream 250gallon tank...

anyway, help me put together a list to convert tank to salt water.. what else do i need besides..
1. 40lb coral
2. bag of salt
3.live rock
4. refractometer
5.filtration system.. ( right now i have x2 110gph filters, will this be good enough? or should i use something else? my tank is on a dresser so no room for external sump..

thank you guys so much for the help!!

 

[herrrerrera]

here is the tank i would be using..

 

[daveo_irl]

Well, you will get better/more detailed answers from the more experienced people here. But, main method of filtration for marine tanks is by using more natural filtration ie: the correct amount of live rock, and good flow and water turnover.

My system is a nano tank, with no sump. But basically I have my water flowing through 4 compartments in the back of the tank which contain 1. Powerhead pulling water into the compartments, protein skimmer to remove gunk, heater, phosphate remover (rowaphos), live rubble and then a return pump back into the tank. All these combined with the correct amount of live rock in the tank itself and powerheads to allow the flow of water through the live rock is enough to keep the water very clean (along with regular water changes).

Some tanks also incorporate other natural methods including DSB's (Deep Sand Beds) and Chaeto, which is a type of algae which will keep nitrates down.

Again, wait to see what the more experienced folk say as I could be wrong in some of the above.

Also, Copepods are GOOD!

 

[jtnova13]

How big were the tangs and triggers? These will get way too big for a 38gallon tank.

Also anemone need specific lighting requirement and a well established tank or they will die.

You will need 40 lbs of Live Rock (this is your filtration).
Use high quality salt like Reef Crystals.
koralia powerheads are good, alot of people on here swear by them.
You can get a hang-on protein skimmer.

 

[herrrerrera]

^^BUMP for a bit more imput

well i didn't have all the fish i listed at once, the tang were pretty big, the most fish i had in there at once was 2 tang, baby trigger, a clown and 1 anemone

whats a good rule of thumb to know how much live rock one would need for certain size tank?
if starting a new tank, do you add the live rock right away?

also i missed one reply saying it required to do 25% weekly water changes, i was definitely not changing the water that often. more like 25%water change every 4-6 weeks? i assume this might be a big part of my mistake??

that seems like a huge chore with big tanks. with my 120gallon tank using a 5gallon bucket, that's 10trips back and forth to the bathroom! haha and if i had a 250gallon tanke thats 20trips! is there an easier way??

I've always heard the bigger the tank, the easier it is to care for. so before i jump with both feet in on my tank, i'm goona by a 5gallon tank, and get one fish. and see if i can keep it alive for a year.

 

[rabbut]

Smaller tanks are more prone to failure as they are less stable, get the biggest tank you can afford and/or fit

You want about 1kg of live rock per 10 liters, or 1lb per gallon

Ideally, you have enough pumps to push at least 20 times the tank's volume per hour, more if you like most Anemone's and certain corals

You then get a Protien skimmer that will do a tank at least twice the size of yours.

If you want Anemone's or SPS corals, get the best lights you can afford, or reasonable lights for LPS. Softies as a rule will tolerate most lights...

Try to avoid external filters if you can, as they tend to cause issues unless you religiously maintain them weekly, or set them up in a specific way

Water changes you do by stocking and water stats. Basically, if Nitrate is creaping up, water change it. Ideally you want to be using RO water, not tap water, and a good quality salt.

HTH
Rabbut

 

[jtnova13]

I don't think there is a rule of thumb for water changes. You will have to find your own schedule by how many corals you have and when nitrates are getting high.

If you are keeping alot of hard corals you will need to get an alkalinity test and do water changes to replenish the calcium in the water that is used up by these corals.

If you have really heavy stocking, you will have to measure nitrates and make changes appropriately. With low stocking and no corals, 25% every 4-6 weeks was probably adequate.

 

[daveo_irl]

When I was referring to water changes I was using my own example of 25% a week. However I have a nano tank, and so I am much more susceptible to water quality issues + a 25% water change isn't a big deal for me due to the small amounts of water involved.
Like others have said it all depends on your tank size and stocking.

 

[herrrerrera]

what is RO water?
what is a nano tank?

i am ready to start up a 10 gallon tank.
so should i not use hang on filters? for filtration? should i just use a power head, live rock and maybe a hang on protien skimmer?
anyone know of a good fair priced site i can buy my stuff from? such as filters, salt, live rock, coral sand, protein skimmers?
My LFS wants 8.99/lb for live rock! i remember when it was 4.49/lb

 

[SkiFletch]

RO stands for Reverse Osmosis, which is a method by which we remove 99%+ of contaminants from tapwater. When keeping many corals and invertebrates, they are often very sensitive to some things that are in tapwater that can't be filtered out any way other than via RO filtration. Furthermore, tapwater often contains nitrates and phosphates leading to algae buildup in a marine ecosystem, RO water removes these too.

A Nano tank is any tank 30g and smaller

If you just want to setup a 10g to see if you can keep A fish alive, my suggestion would be the following:

10g tank
10lbs LR
~200gph powerhead
5lbs aragonite sand
~50-100 watt heater depending on how cold it gets there
Salt mix
ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH test kit
Refractometer
food
low powered light, like a single T8 lamp with a 10,000K bulb


Mix the salt water in the tank, use the refractometer to get yourself to the 1.023-1.026sg range. Buy/Add LR once heat/sg is there, and fire up the powerhead. Add sand once the LR is in place. Test the water, wait for it to cycle (usually takes 1-2 weeks). Research and buy a fish suitible for a small tank.

 

[Buddyboy67]

Ro stands for reverse osmosis..tap water is passed through an ro unit where all impurities are removed leaving you pure h2o
Nano tanks are small systems , usually less than 30 gallons, many now coming as complete units.

In theory filtration is carried out by circulating the water in your tank around the live rock by means of power heads , with a turn over rate of at least 20x total volume per hour..

Protein skimmers are beneficial, especially if heavily stocked, although I have ran a nan here for almost two years without one, relying on regular weekly 25% water changes to remove excess waste.

Where are you located mate as this will help people to recomend a good supplier???

All the fresh water rules of filter requirements are basically thrown out the window in this side of the hobby lol, relying more on setting up a mini eco system within the confines of your tank.

lol..just noticed that ski beat me to it here...and in a lot more detail as well