Confused, If Someone Could Help Me Out That Would Be Great.

[tinynikki]

I've been told that mollies need salt in their aquarium, I've had a balloon molly for several weeks now and she seems to be doing fine without it.
However, I was reading up on the symptoms of mollies that don't get salt and one of them is the "shimmies"? I guess this is where it causes the fish to waddle back and forth, and the reason why I'm worried is because that's exactly what my balloon molly does, however she's a very active fish and seems to be pretty happy and doesn't seem miserable at all.
I'm wondering if maybe she waddles back and forth is because she's so fat?
My question is, I was also told that mollies can live without salt and then I read on here that if you don't put salt in their aquarium they'll eventually die!
I also read that other fish such as tetras don't like salt, and that salt can kill your aquarium plants.
I also have a catfish, 2 platys, and 2 other tetras in the tank as well.
I don't want any of my fish to die, what should I do?
Will my molly be okay without salt??

 

[Truck]

if you have catfish DO NOT add salt, it burns their boney plated body and will kill them

 

[AdAndrews]

mollies dont necesarily need salt however they do benifit from it, similar to what truck said be careful about your other fish if adding salt, it can kill some species like cats

 

[nmonks]

Okay, for the hundredth time, salt doesn't "burn" or mysteriously "kill" catfish. There are plenty of catfish in brackish water habitats, and for those who haven't studied brackish water habitats, the sheer diversity and abundance of catfish in those habitats might be a surprise. But catfish are amongst the most characteristic fishes of brackish water environments, and in some places among the dominant components of the fish fauna.

Small amounts of salt are routinely added to aquaria to treat whitespot in situations where copper and formalin are not recommended. Catfish are, in some cases, sensitive to copper, and salt is known to be far less dangerous than standard whitespot medications! And yet I wonder how many of the people who persist in pushing the "toxic salt" myth wouldn't think twice about adding anti-whitespot/ick medication to their community tanks, presence of Corydoras and plecs notwithstanding?

Salt isn't a poison. All fish have some ability to adapt to variations in salinity. What differs from species to species is how wide this adaptability is. At least some members of the Corydoras-family Callichthyidae, such as Hoplosternum littorale, are know to be euryhaline and occur naturally in brackish water habitats, seemingly in preference to soft water habitats. The genus Corydoras itself displays varying degrees of salt-tolerance depending on the species. While most come from soft, mineral-poor environments, the hardy species (like bronze and peppered cories) can be fully expected to adapt to low levels of salinity.

Dave Sands will be well known to anyone who studies South American catfish; through the 1980s especially he was one of the chief collectors who described South American catfish to the fishkeeping hobby. In his book 'Keeping Aquarium Fishes: Corydoras Catfish' he says this:

Mollies ... can be kept with catfish [i.e., Corydoras] even though many books suggest Corydoras cannot tolerate salt in the water. Small amounts of salt will not harm catfishes.

While he doesn't explicitly state the upper limit of salinity, as someone who knows a little about the topic I'd suggest a value around SG 1.001, or 10% seawater salinity, marine salt mix at about 3.5 grammes per litre. That would be ample salt for most livebearers to do well.

Do I recommend Corydoras as additions to the brackish water tank? No. But adding such a small amount of salt for the benefit of livebearers such as mollies doesn't turn a freshwater tank into a brackish water one. For that to be the case, I'd recommend at least SG 1.003, about 6 grammes of marine salt mix per litre. That would make the tank even better for mollies, and certainly better for gobies and other low-end brackish water species. But that's not what we're talking about here. If you just want to add a little salt to help the mollies out, there's no reason to assume doing so will kill your Corydoras.

Cheers, Neale

 

[andywg]

if you have catfish DO NOT add salt, it burns their boney plated body and will kill them

You repeated this incorrect myth about salt burning catfish in another thread here. On that time I corrected you in this post.

It's always great to see people posting and offering advice in the more niche areas such as brackish, but at least read the responses of more knowledgeable members such as nmonks and please stop just churning out completely incorrect information as you have done above.

 

[tinynikki]

okay so i have one person telling me not to add salt to my tank if i have a catfish and someone else telling me it's okay, so which is it?
what i mainly was asking was do i HAVE to add salt to the water for my molly or will she be okay without?
doesn't salt kill aquarium plants as well?

 

[nmonks]

Multiple points of view is what you'll get on this topic. But in my defence, I have written a book about brackish water fish and write about them for all the major fishkeeping magazines. I do know a little on the subject, and while some might disagree, my argument has always been that while some people successfully keep mollies without salt, everyone can keep them successfully by adding marine salt mix. In fact I believe I have an article on precisely this topic coming out in TFH within the next few months.

When you use salt, don't make the common mistake of using tonic salt or aquarium salt.* You need to use marine salt mix. Why? Because only marine salt mix raises the carbonate hardness, which is at least one of the key factors to maintaining mollies properly. Sodium chloride detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, but only carbonate and bicarbonate ions buffer the pH.

Marine salt mix at the low (3 g/l) dose discussed here will have zero effect on the hardwater-tolerant plants you need to be keeping with mollies; there is a pinned thread on planting brackish water aquaria here as well, should you decide to raise the salinity level up to brackish water levels.

I'd also make the point, as I've often done elsewhere, that mollies aren't community tank fish. Most every aquarium book ever written describes their need for very specific conditions: high temperature, high hardness, stable and basic pH, and preferably some salt in the water too. And yet the sheer numbers of mollies thrown into community tanks underlines the fact most people don't read anything before spending their money. Result? A lot of sick mollies. Over at WWM, you wouldn't believe the number of queries I answer from people with mollies that have fungus, finrot or a variety of other, easily preventable diseases.

Cheers, Neale

*These are simply repackaged non-iodised cooking salt; your retailer will gladly sell you these because they're very profitable! Don't fall for this; always use marine salt mix for livebearers and brackish water fish.

okay so i have one person telling me not to add salt to my tank if i have a catfish and someone else telling me it's okay, so which is it?
what i mainly was asking was do i HAVE to add salt to the water for my molly or will she be okay without?
doesn't salt kill aquarium plants as well?

 

[kewskills]

If you are going to listen to anyone when it comes to Brackish Fish and environments then Nmonks is the man to listen too, he has given me invaluable information time and time again.

okay so i have one person telling me not to add salt to my tank if i have a catfish and someone else telling me it's okay, so which is it?

 

[tinynikki]

okay, thanks for the help dude.
based on what you've told me, i've come to the decision to add a tiny bit of salt to my fishtank.
one last question though, when i do add salt it won't harm the tetras and platys i have right?
or will it?..

 

[nmonks]

The platies will be fine. The tetras are less predictable; some species (such as x-ray tetras and cave tetras) are quite tolerant of salt, and indeed mineralised water generally. But others, like cardinals and neons, come from very mineral-poor water, and don't do well in hard water conditions, let alone salty conditions. While I dare say they'll tolerate a certain amount over the short term when used therapeutically, I would NOT keep them in a tank with salt added.

As I say, mollies SHOULD NOT be kept in community tanks with fish intolerant of salt. Please take this advice for what it is: a reminder to research the needs of your fish PRIOR to purchase, not afterwards.

Cheers, Neale

 

[tinynikki]

but my little black molly oprah seems happy.
she gets along with the other fish really well, eats alot and is fat.
there are sometimes exceptions right?
but you're probably right about the whole researching before i got fish part, i honestly didn't think there was much you needed to know about taking care of fish, let alone a WHOLE website devoted to it.
haha.

 

[nmonks]

My job (I do this for a living, luckily!) is to give advice that works for everyone, all the time. The problem with mollies is that while some specimens certainly do live happily in freshwater, while other specimens do fine in freshwater for months at a time, mollies don't do well in freshwater 100% of the time. Hence if someone asks me how to keep mollies easily, I'll say, "add some marine salt mix to control pH, hardness, salinity, and nitrate toxicity". That's good advice that costs very little and works every single time.

By all means carry on what you're doing. But if you see symptoms such as finrot, fungus or shimmies (treading water, rocking from side to side) then you'll understand the whole mollies issue from my perspective.

Cheers, Neale

but my little black molly oprah seems happy.
she gets along with the other fish really well, eats alot and is fat.
there are sometimes exceptions right?
but you're probably right about the whole researching before i got fish part, i honestly didn't think there was much you needed to know about taking care of fish, let alone a WHOLE website devoted to it.
haha.

 

[tinynikki]

i'm not opposed to adding salt to my tank, in fact i actually already did.
all i was referring to was the part where you suggested mollies should only live with other mollies.
but i'm taking your advice and i'll see how it goes.