Commercial Gravel Additives

[robbie carrobie]

Hi have been reading forum on setting up first planted tank. My tank at present is 5ft x 2ft x 2ft approx 65 gallons. i would really like some good advice with regard to commercial gravel additives, what you have found to give the best results, what is available, why it is good, what are good combinations, why one differs from another, anything really on this subject. have been surfing the forum and the web for a couple of days and have found that either the information is too scientific, cloaked in 'inhouse' language with lots of acknowledgement from those who are initiated as they communicate in abbreviations of which there is a plethora, fairly subjective or downright scant. if you can help then this would be most appreciated - kind regards in advance - robert.

 

[SJ2K]

The most popular at the moment seems to be eco-complete, its a complete substrate that harbours all nutrients needed by the plants. If you want to use gravel alone you'll need to dose the tank with Co2 (which is actually needed whatever the substrate) and regular fertz.

 

[robbie carrobie]

Hi, this presents two options as far as i can discern, either one can use a complete commercial gravel that has all the additives already present or that one can use any gravel and mix additives. Please for give me if i am wrong, however i would like to consider the latter if it were at all possible due to appearance .

 

[SJ2K]

What do you mean by additives?

 

[robbie carrobie]

Exactly my question and ever so succinctly put ! i was/am under the impression, after reading a post with regard to setting up a planted tank that one must mix additives with the gravel for long term plant health, at least this was the impression that i got after reading threads in the planted section of this forum, could be wrong, often am - regards robert.

 

[SJ2K]

You can mix laterite to regular substrate or use root tabs or use pure eco complete.

 

[Dave Spencer]

You can have an inert substrate if you want, although some plants are heavy root feeders that will benefit from a substrate such as Eco Complete.

The most important apect of a planted tank is the lighting levels. These will determine what you need to do in terms fertilisers and CO2. If you keep it low light, around 1WPG, you may be able to keep plants without adding anything. Growth will be slow, though, and you won`t get the best from your plants.

At somewhere around the 2WPG mark the light levels drive growth sufficiently for CO2 and water column fertilisation to be vital in order to prevent your plants becoming leggy and nutrient deficient, with resultant algae.

What you need to ask yourself is do you want a few plants for effect, or do you want a successful planted tank?

Dave.

 

[robbie carrobie]

wow thats excellent, , now i know you is busy, and is it asking too much to ask what products are available commercially, how one differs from another, what are the benefits etc. now i am asking too much, apologies, even with these additives, i suppose one also must add trace elements as well, and if so what is available, thanks for your time and patience - robert.

 

[robbie carrobie]

actually lighting is not the problem, its fairly elementary to work out that if i have a 65 gallon tank, that will require approximately 120 watts of lighting to obtain 2 watts per gallon, this would come in the form of two 58 watt tube, no?

 

[Dave Spencer]

At 2WPG you will find water column fertilisation to be adequate for most plants. I use this alongside sand effectively in one tank.

However, I find I get better results when using water column ferts alongside a decent substrate. Have you read the pinned EI topic in the planted section?

One other thing, though; with 65G you will almost certainly need the stability that pressurised CO2 gives over DIY. The cost is mounting pretty quickly.

Dave.

 

[robbie carrobie]

oh man, first it was my ciclids and silver dollars were gonna eat all my plants and now i need a pressurised co2 system, couldnt i just use a big giant bottle or something ? na seriously, i did look at the Ei post after working out what the abbreviation meant, however its fairly high maintenance with 50% water changes etc. that why i am trying to figure, although not very successfulfy if adding something to the substrata would not be better, lower on maintenance and healthy for plants. P.S. can you explain what the water coloumn is, please forgive ingnorance and spelling, regards robert.

 

[Dave Spencer]

My advice to you would be to stay well below 2WPG. At this level there is no real compromising on your routines.

Dave.

 

[robbie carrobie]

thanks dave, i can see how the lighting question is taking on more relevance , do you think that it is possible that the plants would get enough nutrients from a lower lighting, with a richer substrata such as laterite/gravel , with occasional water changes (can you imagine changing 30 gallons every week) and some occasional water coloumn fertilisation ?

 

[robbie carrobie]

Hi, this was the article that i was reading on forum, 'your first planted tank' and the following was stated,

Plants are Just like any other living being, plants need nutrients to execute their basic biological functions. The 3 most important nutrients for any kind of plant are nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium (N-P-K), so garden fertilizers are made with compounds containing these elements, called macronutrients. However, aquarium water tends to naturally accumulate large amounts of N and P in the form of ammonia, nitrates, phosphates, etc, and an excess of these compounds tends to cause a wide range of problems (fish intoxication, algae growth, pH fluctuations, etc), so aquarium fertilizers should only have high concentrations of K. Of course, several other elements are needed in smaller quantities but are also essential. These are called micronutrients or trace elements: Fe, Zn, Mg, Mn, S, B, and others. There are several good commercial aquarium fertilizers which supply all these nutrients in appropriate quantities, which you can buy and "feed" the plants just as you do with the fish. But there's an extra advantage that in general you'll only need to do this a few times a month, not every day.

Its this last part thats confusing me !!!

If i have a 65 gallon (uk) tank, can i grow healthy plants in this way (i mean avoiding the EI method of feeding every day and 50 % water changes ) and if so can anyone advise on substrata (i would like gravel with additive and then sand on top), lighting ( i was advised not to go above 2watts per gallon if i wanted to avoid EI method) , co2(a dude called dave who was really helpful said that for this size i would need a pressurised system) - kind regards in advance robert.

 

[Dave Spencer]

Hi, this was the article that i was reading on forum, 'your first planted tank' and the following was stated,

The 3 most important nutrients for any kind of plant are nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium (N-P-K), so garden fertilizers are made with compounds containing these elements, called macronutrients.

Light and carbon come before N,P and K. Increase the lighting and the first nutrient to limit growth is carbon.

However, aquarium water tends to naturally accumulate large amounts of N and P in the form of ammonia, nitrates, phosphates, etc, and an excess of these compounds tends to cause a wide range of problems (fish intoxication, algae growth, pH fluctuations, etc), so aquarium fertilizers should only have high concentrations of K.

I mostly disagree with this statement. Nitrates and phophates can accumulate to very high levels before causing any harm to fish. Discus and Amano shrimp have been kept in nitrates at 100ppm with no observable problems. Phosphate levels have never been tested, as far as I know. EI has us adding N and P.

Nitrates and phosphates do not cause algae, otherwise we would all have it.

Of course, several other elements are needed in smaller quantities but are also essential. These are called micronutrients or trace elements: Fe, Zn, Mg, Mn, S, B, and others. There are several good commercial aquarium fertilizers which supply all these nutrients in appropriate quantities, which you can buy and "feed" the plants just as you do with the fish. But there's an extra advantage that in general you'll only need to do this a few times a month, not every day.

Unless you have quoted it out of context, this part is way too simplistic and does not take in to account light levels. The light is the engine, and the bigger the engine the faster it is, and the more fuel it needs (CO2, N, P, K, Fe etc....).

If i have a 65 gallon (uk) tank, can i grow healthy plants in this way (i mean avoiding the EI method of feeding every day and 50 % water changes ) and if so can anyone advise on substrata (i would like gravel with additive and then sand on top), lighting ( i was advised not to go above 2watts per gallon if i wanted to avoid EI method) , co2(a dude called dave who was really helpful said that for this size i would need a pressurised system) - kind regards in advance robert.

People with lower light tanks rely on fish waste to be able to keep up with the plants demand for nutrients. If you want a fertile substrate, go for Eco Complete or Tropica. There are also many others. If you do a search on this forum, you may find some threads on using garden soil mixed with sand.

There is no reason why you can`t have a successful planted aquarium with lower light levels and minimal fertilisers. Even so, you may want to look up Flourish Excel as a carbon source and Tropica Plant Nutrition for trace elements.

Dave.