Coming Back To Fishkeeping - Some Questions.

[nudge]

Hi,
I am about to get back into tropical fish after a long (12 yr) break and am doing some research before me and my cash are parted so have some questions.

I am looking at a Jewel Rio 300 as it is the biggest tank i can fit in the space i have. I plan on taking the internal filter out as i hate that big box in the corner of the tank. What sort ot turnover should i be aiming for from an external filter. I was looking at something around 1200 lph but this is only 4 times per hour, is it enough as i have seen quotes that suggest i should be aiming for around 10 times per hour but thats 3000 lph and would need huge filter (or two).

If 1200 lph is enough what would be a good filter, looked at tetratec 1200, JBL CristalProfi e1500, Sunsun 1400 UV, any other recomendations ? (eheim seem quite high priced when you get up to the 1200 lph size)

For the same reason i am going to take the internal filter out, i would like to consider using the Hydor external heater. Is it as efficient/reliable as an internal and is it likely to cost anymore to run.

I am planning on an averagely planted tank, should i plant when i set the tank up or wait till i have finished the fishless cycle before planting. the reason i ask is that i have read that plants can mask the true readings by absorbing the nitrates etc.

I plan on terracing one corner of the tank with a small rock wall about 10-15cm high. Is it ok to fill the area behind the wall to the full depth with gravel or should i fill the bottom few inches of the area with some inert material to keep the gravel depth to only around 4-5 cm.

Think thats it for now, sorry for all the questions but i would like to do this right.

 

[djl08]

cant answer any others, but the plants shouldnt be a problem, i cycled my tank with quite a few plants and had no trouble. Also, the nitrate readings arnt really important while cycling, they just give you an indication that the nitrogen cycle is actually underway. But obviously, you need to keep an eye on them once you add fish.

 

[waterdrop]

I came back too but my break was even longer than 12 yrs, lol. Welcome to TFF!

OK, Turnover rate! The "reality" range of turnover rates I see recommended here on TFF is from 4x (the number you're considering) to 5x (the number most often recommended, especially to beginners, here on the forum) to 10x (a number frequently mentioned when in the company of "planted tank hobbyists") to 12x (even more intense planted enthusiasts.) This is not to mention the two extremes that are out there (0x - no turnover, perhaps in an NPT of Walstad variety or the other extreme of something like 32x which is about as high as I've ever heard a planted tank enthusiast mention (which means someone with more will post in a moment, lol)).

So do I think your proposed 4x turnover rate is too low? Heck, I don't know. Just depends on your goals. I went for 5x, which for me was a revelation compared to the old days of bubble filters. But now that I've been at it for a while I find I wouldn't have minded going closer in the 10x direction perhaps, as I feel eliminating dead pockets (which is what all the high rates are about, its all about eliminating algae, would you believe that?) I was worried about my little fish being blown around, and indeed it does bother me when they get washed down the middle of the bowfront, but that's really a different problem of where I'm directing things and in fact I decided 5x wasn't really as stong as I had expected it to be and these numbers in the range of 5x to 12x are probably quite manageable.

Now, there's another little path to go down that I should mention and that's to put a powerhead (the Hydor Koralia series are currently popular because they have a broader stream than the traditional powerhead) somewhere in the tank, often such that it gets the lower depths moving around more. This keeps you from seeking a bigger and bigger filter when in fact you've probably got all the media volume you need anyway! Definately something to consider although unsightliness and noise can be issues of course.

Oh, and that neatly brings up the topic of the Hydor Inline heater. Here I have no problem recommending as I've got one, the 200w version, and its fantastic as far as I can tell. I've only had it a year and a half so that's as far as I can say on reliability, but during this time its been amazing in how fast it can bring cold water up to temp and rock solid on holding temp, can't even tell the temp ever moves even a degree (hope this doesn't bore the fish, lol, maybe I need a seasonal temp program...) Anyway, the basic fact of having the heating go on -outside- of the tank is just fabulous for the aquascape and having the cannister filter distribute the heat all around the tank is part of why it all works so well I'm sure. Highly recommended. (Note, they do have glass on the inside, so be just as delicate and careful as you would be with a normal tube heater!)

Next question? Oh, that's right, filter recommedations, oh dear, huge controversial topic, ongoing in the hardware section of course... Well first and foremost I'm a person who thinks taking extra good care of your filter and doing really good regular maintenance can help any of the major contenders to do the best job they can and there are fans of all the major lines out there, so let that be said first. As far as personal bias, I have an Eheim Pro and so far its been an awesome piece of machinery, so yes, I'm biased by that.

OK, that said, my main recommendations would be the Eheim ProII and Pro3 lines and the Classic line (not the Ecco and the Pro models are too small for you probably.) The Rena cannisters and the Tetratec cannisters I would like more than the Eheim classics probably but not as much as the Eheim Pro types. The Fluvals also have many fans here. The Eheims are justifiably criticized for price and sometimes for availability. The Renas get knocks on seals being hard to get at sometimes. The Tetratecs get knocks on some of the plastic parts breaking sometimes. The Fluvals get knocks on seals giving way and tubing being weird sometimes. But all these filters also have people who have never had a single problem and other people who've had some terrible episode, so what can you say? By the way, two slightly smaller cannisters, if you can afford it has the advantage of backup and alternate cleanings, both of which are good things of course.

Whew, you shouldn't ask so many questions in one post! But we'll mention one more (plants during cycling) since I don't know the answer about your terrace! Plants during cycling is one of those "can go either way" topics. If you don't have family members screaming to be seeing things during the 2 months of fishless cycling then cycling a "blacked out tank" is a great way to go and I'd recommend it I think in your case, its to keep the algae off the substrate, walls and plants (since there are no plants, lol) You just tape up a bunch of black plastic bag material so no light gets in for the period (warning, its psychologically difficult, I bet ) Now, on the other hand, another thing you could do is put in some bunches of cheap plants and plan on tossing them at the end of cycling and then buying your expensive plants. As far as the plants causing your testing readings to be harder to understand, well yes, that's an issue sometimes but to some extent it can also be accounted for and plenty of people fishless cycle with plants. I've always thought a possible positive of plants is that they may bring in some seeding bacteria, clearly not a significant amount or people would have noticed and noted it but when you're sitting there on those long dull days of cycling you're ready to think of anything! Technically, most think that more or less all of the seeding bacteria come in via the tap and that some of them must be somewhat resistant to chlorination methods.

SeeYa! ~~waterdrop~~

 

[nudge]

Thanks so much waterdrop for taking the time to answer my long list of questions. very helpful thanks.
One more question for you experts if i may.

If i get the hydor external heater, if i fit it upside down so as to keep the direction of flow correct would it be ok to fit it into the filter inllet pipe instead of the outlet. does anyone elso do this. I know in general it should go on the output but for the layout i am planning it is more convenient to put it in the filter inlet line.

Tank arrives next week (rio 300), filter on way, went for jbl e1500 in the end seing as i found it for only £90 and saw some good reviews for it.

Thnks for your help

 

[arobinson1984]

Dont quite understand what you mean by putting the pipe in the wrong way round?

I have a hydor external heater and recommend them, I havent had any trouble and originally got one for the same reason as you so I could remove the internal filter/heater section out of my juwel tank.

Did you say you already have got a filter? I was going to recommend the fluval FX5.

Andy

 

[waterdrop]

Hi nudge,

No, I would not attempt to use the Hydor in a non-recommended way. I would not splice it into the filter inlet hose in the upside down position rather than rightside-up in the outlet hose. I would only use it the way Hydor recommends, rightside up spliced in to the outlet hose. I'd be worried they have built the internal components of the heater with an expectation of where the internal excess heat will be rising.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Geoff1991]

Hi nudge,

No, I would not attempt to use the Hydor in a non-recommended way. I would not splice it into the filter inlet hose in the upside down position rather than rightside-up in the outlet hose. I would only use it the way Hydor recommends, rightside up spliced in to the outlet hose. I'd be worried they have built the internal components of the heater with an expectation of where the internal excess heat will be rising.

~~waterdrop~~

Not only that, it wont be as efficient on the intake as the water will cool slightly as it goes through the filter and back into the tank (especially when its cold out)

Im currently waiting for my hydor external to be delivered.