Coming Back From The Salty Side...how Does This Work Again?

[whamajama]

Hi there, for the past few years I have been keeping saltwater/reef tanks, and have thoroughly enjoyed it. However, I have missed the big schools of fish and the plants that make freshwater tanks so fun since I started...not to mention that an average saltwater fish can cost upwards of $50. Also considering I have a spare 55 gallon and some HOB filters and heaters conveniently laying around, I think that this is a good time to try my hand at freshwater again.
 
However, I have not set up a freshwater tank in many years now, and I had a few questions, to which I have yet to find definitive answers:
 
1. I remember that to cycle you had to put ammonia in the tank, so as to get the nitrogen cycle up and running. What I don't remember is how much bacteria you initially need to use to seed the tank. Do you just use a couple of grains of sand from an existing tank and call it good, or do you need to add quite a bit? Every answer I've seen to this question just says "some."
 
2. Another quick question about the water...how important is it to make sure that the water going into the tank is pure? Obviously, you want to make sure there is no dissolved Cl and such, but in a reef it is almost imperative to use as close to 0 TDS as possible. For this I have an RO/DI unit, will it be of use, or is it better to just use dechlorinator alone?
 
3. How do you know when the tank is stocked to capacity? This clearly depends heavily upon your feeding schedule, the size of the fish, etc., but is there a rule of thumb to use? In SW you generally could figure it out by your tanks filtration/cleanup crew, but there is no live rock or chaeto in FW to use as reference, so how do you relatively find how many fish to get?
 
4. I will be wanting plants in this tank...but I remember when I used to do plants there were all kinds of complicated CO2 injectors and stuff like that. Granted, it's probably no more complicated than the protein skimmers and Ca reactors I've become accustomed to during my time on the salty side, but how much of it is actually necessary? It would seem that to keep a few basic plants you shouldn't need to inject more water than is already being reacted with the water via the atmosphere.
 
5. How important is flow in these tanks? In SW, you generally want a minimum of 30x the tank volume to circulate every hour (so at least ~1700 GPH in this 55 gal), but that was mostly to prevent deadspots in the live rock, and to provide flow for stony corals. Is this quite so critical in FW, or is all you really need a standard HOB filter? That being said, do fish from different habitats (river vs. swamp) need different levels of flow, or will they adapt to whatever is provided by their environment?
 
6. Kind of going along with #5, are sumps impractical in FW, or is it just that they are unecessary? In SW it was always a good idea to have one, but I pretty much never see the likes of them on FW tanks. Is this for a reason? I could drill this tank pretty easily (I know it isn't tempered), and have an extra tank/pump that would work for a sump just fine, but is there a reason I shouldn't bother?
 
7. What are the substrate conventions with FW? I have used nothing but bare-bottom and aragonite sand setups since I started with SW, but I know there is all kinds of wacky stuff available for planted tanks and stuff. What do these things actually do?
 
8. What about surface agitation? In my SW tanks, the surface has always looked like boiling water pretty much, because many fish required loads of O2 in the water...is this the case with FW fish as well, or do they generally not require as much. Clearly, SW fish are used to having waves, whereas FW ones generally are not, but does this make a difference in terms of oxygen requirements?
 
Finally, for a planted 55g (maybe w/ a 20 gal sump, unless that's no good), how does the following look for a stock list?
10 rummynose tetra
10 Harlequin rasbora
5 panda cory
2 dwarf gourami
 
Thanks for any help, I appreciate it.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Have you been peeking at my profile - that's pretty close to my stocking.
 
I'd go WAY higher with the panda cory numbers - they are small afterall - maybe a dozen.
 
Harlequin rasboras are nice, but I'd probably go with the smaller, slightly brighter Trigonostigma espei ("Lambchop rasbora").  They are smaller than harly's, so you'll want a few more - 15-20.  I'd also mention that if you are really looking for a planted tank, the lambchops really pop against the greenery. Or, even the hengli rasbora.  Of course, the harly are nice too.  I have 9.

 

[This Old Spouse]

I think you should take a peek at the Beginner's Resource Center (link is in my sig) and have a look at fishless cycling which will guide you step by step.
 
You just need regular tank water, dechlorinated, of course. Most people like Seachem Prime because it takes care of most nasties that might come out of your tap. Initially expensive but it lasts a long, long time.
 
Rule of thumb for stocking is 1" of fish per gallon, keeping in mind the size of a full-grown fish. If you keep a pristine tank with good filter flow you can usually go a little more than this.
 
Heavily planted, high-light tanks do best with CO2 injected. We just did a long thread about this. Here is the link for the latest thread.
 
I honestly can't remember the formula for figuring out flow. But it's in there somewhere.
 
I don't think most people use sumps for FW. 
 
The substrate question is always ongoing. General concensus is that if you keep bottom-dwelling fish such as cory and syno and some plecos, that sand is the best, because especially the cory will sift the sand through their gills while snuffling for food. Take a look at the Fish of the Year Winner for a perfect example of this. Gravel for cichlids and such seems to be the norm.
 
You want to have some surface agitation to keep the O2 levels going, but a raging current isn't necessary. 
 
I'd up the numbers on all the fish (even double) except the gouramis.
 
Welcome back!!

 

[fluttermoth]

1. To 'seed' a new tank, you really need actual filter media from a cycled tank; there may be a small amount of bacteria on substrate/decor, but not really enough to kick start a cycle. In FW tanks, nearly all your bacteria live in the filter; there is a minimal amount anywhere else. The donor tank can lose up to a third of it's media without being negatively affected, as long as the media (sponges/ceramic rings/whatever) is replaced with new; for your tank, the more mature media you can get, the better. It goes in your filter; preferably so the water flows through it first.
 
2. It's probably easier to use straight tap water with a declorinator, unless you live in a hard water area and want to keep soft water fish. In that case, you can use RO water, but you still need to remineralise it, either by mixing in a proportion of tap water, or a commercial mix.
 
3. A useful guideline to stocking is one inch of fish to each gallon of water (or one cm of fish per two litres); this applies only to standard, slim bodied tropical fish, of less than three inches adult size, but it's a handy rule of thumb; of course, as you rightly say, stocking depends on lots of variables though. 
 
Your proposed stocking looks fine, but I agree with
 
4. There are loads of easy plants that don't need special fertilizers or CO2.
 
5. Flow varies with what types of fish you want (although you can add powerheads rather than extra filters, if you just want more flow for riverine fish) but, in general you want a turnover rate of around 10 times the tank volume per hour.
 
6. FW tanks are a little more forgiving when it comes to pollutants, so you don't really need a sump; a decent external canister filter is plenty enough for a standardly stocked  55g tank.
 
7. You can get special substrates for planted tanks that contain extra fertilizers and minerals for plants, but, as with CO2, there are plenty of easy plants that will do just fine without them. If you want corydoras, then I would recommend you look at having sand as a substrate; cories really do love snuffling around in sand; it's much nicer for them than gravel, with can be too rough and wear away their barbels, or harbour detritus that can give them infections.
 
8. As long as your filter is causing the surface of the water to ripple, then that's enough for most fish. There are a few; hillstream loach, for example, that do like very oxygen rich water, but they're the exceptions.
 
Your proposed stocking looks fine, although I agree with eagle; you have plenty of space for a few more cories. You could probably go with a dozen of each of your shoaling fish; they're all small, with a correspondingly small bioload.

 

[whamajama]

So, a sump is not necessary, but is there any reason to not put one in? I only ask because I have everything I need to set it up, but I do not have a canister filter or anything like it (beyond el cheapo HOB filters).
 
Other than that, I think you guys effectively answered all of my questions. So something along the lines of
12 rummynose tetras
12 lambchop rasboras
12 panda cories
2 dwarf gouramis
should be good for this tank?
 
Thanks again!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

HoBs can work fine on a 55. I have a pair on a 56 gallon, and a larger pair on a 110. If you are going planted you'll want about 10x volume turnover, but a simple power head can be more effective than the filters for that.

On my 110 I have two penguin 350s plus a 150 Gph power head.


You could up the shoal size a little more if you wanted, but your stocking list definitely speaks to me.