Bignose, I understand your skepticism, but have you actually tried it? Basing your opinion on something you heard from people who went out to 'prove' that it doesn't work isn't the best idea. Science argues against all sorts of things- religion, anything that hasn't been put through rigourous animal testing, voulentary euthanasia.... I'm sure if you looked a bit more you'd find plenty of scientific articles saying it does work.
Firstly, no, I have not tried it, I will remain skeptical until I see proof. Nor will I put marinara sauce or grapefruit seed extract (
see this old thread) or olive oil in my tank until I see proof that is does something positive. While I do not know the scientists who did the studies I cited, I would hope and I
highly doubt that they were out just to destroy or invalidate the silver producers. Every scientist that I know is very open minded and tries out hypotheses and experiments, then observes the results. The results are what they are, no amount of hoping and wishing that silver works will make it work. The results showed (third time I've quoted this) "
There is little evidence to support therapeutic claims made for colloidal silver products". I am sorry, I wish it would work, too, but the evidence just is not there.
And it is up to the supporters to prove to me, the skeptic, that it works. Not the other way around. You have to bring me the proof, I am not going to use it, and waste my money, and possibly injure my fish or myself, until I disprove it.
I won't even touch the science and religion issue except to say that they are not even looking for the same answers and it is really unfair to compare them. And, virtually ever pill you take, medicine that is useful for curing you has been through animal testing. It is invaluable for modern research. I do believe that as much as possible, the animal suffering should be minimized, but the information that comes from testing is so valuable it is inconceivable that animal testing will be stopped. It is either test on animals or test on people, and the latter is even more immoral.
What causes this backlash against the scientific method and modern medicine? So many people are looking for quick cures, and instant fixes, and willing to give money to herbalists and naturalists, etc. even though the proof is overwhelming that they do nothing, or even worse, make you sicker. Lawyers have added to the problem, as it is easy to convince a sympathetic jury that a certain drug's "side effects" caused problems, even though the rate of problems in the drug takers were no higher than those who didn't take the drugs. A great example is the anti-morning sickness pill, Benedictine. It contained Vitamin B-6 and doxylamine. In the 1980's every mother who took this pill and whose child had a birth defect sued the manufacturer -- to the point, this pill is not made any more. The rate of birth defects in mothers who took Benedictine? 1%. The rate of birth defects in the general population... 1%. And, any expecting mother can go to the drug store and take,
safely cough medicines that have several times the concentration per dose of doxylamine. The benefit? Some lawyers made some money, and now there are less effective anti-morning sickness pills out there.
Here is the way scientists do thier work: they are completely happy when new things come around. If and only if, the new thing works as good or better than what has worked to date. Scientists do not embrace something new, just to be new. They try out new ideas, yes, but if it does not work as good what is out there, or better alternative exist, the new thing is dismissed. They wait for proof. They do not put things down just to put them down. They do not dismiss things just out of hand or malice or spite. They
do dismiss things if there is no proof. This is what I am asking for, proof. That is not too much to ask.
Finally, Ooh, "in looking though the database of scientific articles I have access to ... I did not find any articles talking about using silver to cure diseases, all were about the toxicity of silver to fish." I DID look for articles to support silver cures, I just did not find any. I used Web of Science that has a listing for virtually every paper in the last 25 or so years (many records going a lot farther back than that), and nothing. Sorry, but again no amount of wishing is going to make it true.
KathyM, Re: "but there are benefits to silver usage" please cite these from an unbiased and scientific source.
The toxic levels in the intestine were fairly high, but at any concentration the silver can bind to the fish's gills and inhibit their functioning. Let me say again,
at any concentration. Certainly, the higher the concentration, the more silver will be bound to the fish's gills, but I would not be adding anything to my tank which would be stopping the fish's gills from functioning if there were alternatives.
"Just because something isn't showing bad effects doesn't mean it isn't bad." Couldn't have said it better myself.
Look, if you want to use it, obviously I cannot stop you. But, I am going to keep writing in this thread and any others that start up that there is no proof that this 'cure' works, and to use at your own risk. I am happy that it appears to have worked for some, like wuv, but until an unbiased study is undertaken, I will remain skeptical.
/www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelate...s/silverad.html "FDA laboratory studies have found that the amount of silver in some product samples has varied from 15.2% to 124%"
) but please don't try to stop some of the rest of us looking for a more evidence based approach.
