Coldwater Shoaling Fish

[onesecondglance]

I've been keeping goldfish for a few years now, and recently upgraded to a 35 litre (that's 9 US gallons) tank. I'd really love to have a small shoal (5 or 6 fish) in addition to the two small orandas that I have at the moment but I'm not sure what would be best...

Ideally I'm looking for a variety that's:

1) Hardy and not prone to disease
2) Easy to look after
3) Nice and small - about an inch long?
4) Isn't going to get persecuted / eaten by the other fish
5) Is attractive to look at

I certainly wouldn't class myself as even an amateur fishkeeper - I just try and look after them as well as I can. So anything with specialist requirements would pretty much be out.

Not much to ask I know... has anyone got any thoughts? Are there any varieties I should definitely NOT go for?

 

[black angel]

Youre not going to like this but your way overstocked as it is and i personally would say no to any little fish.
The orandas will in proper conditions grow to over 8 inches long and even now they should have 10 gallons each and huge amounts of filtration.
If you got a 20 gallon then i would say you could add white cloud mountain minnows to your set up as the orandas are still small and wouldnt really pose a threat to the smaller fish.

 

[onesecondglance]

Youre not going to like this but your way overstocked as it is and i personally would say no to any little fish.
The orandas will in proper conditions grow to over 8 inches long and even now they should have 10 gallons each and huge amounts of filtration.
If you got a 20 gallon then i would say you could add white cloud mountain minnows to your set up as the orandas are still small and wouldnt really pose a threat to the smaller fish.

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It's interesting you say the orandas will grow to over 8in - they've been no more than 3in since a few weeks after I got them (as babies) - I like them small! It may be to do with the variety of oranda I have though.

 

[black angel]

They are small because the volume of water they have been kept in is small.
The fish you have are probably stunted now.
How long have you had them and how many gallons did you have them in?
Its got nothing to do with the type they are, all orandas have the potential to reach a minimum of 8 inches and if you have had them for more than a year then they will be stunted. They will grow a little bit when you move them to a slightly bigger tank.
I had an oranda from when he was barely 2 inches long and in 6 months in 16 gallons of water he had grown to nearly 4 inches.

 

[onesecondglance]

The first tank they were in was tiny, only 9 litres (about 2.5 gallons) - I had them in there for about 8 months, then the guilt got too much... They seem happy enough though, especially in the new tank.

Do you think the "stunting" would have harmed the fish or just kept them small?

 

[black angel]

As far as i know it just keeps them small, but who knows what it does to them internally.
Maybe someone else knows more.

 

[superjalami30]

I've read and heard that the fancier types of goldies will continue to grow on the inside while they're outsides stop, eventually causing many problems resulting in the obvious.....death.

This could apply to all goldies, but I dont really know.

 

[black angel]

Personally, I dont believe its the case. I think its a myth myself to make people buy the bigger tank.
If you stunt a fish then thats all that happens, a small fish.
I dont believe its right to stunt a fish and they should be given adequate housing.
But thats my opinion.

 

[sylvia]

I'm sure stunting has adverse effects on health. If you prevent an animal from growing, well surely it'll have an effect on health. Regardless, it isn't fair to keep such large-growing fish in such a tiny tank. Even a 20 gallon is the minnimum and you should keep in mind that, besides growing to a foot in length, goldfish can live to be 30 years old easily. As a responsible owner, you should aim to have them thrive - not just 'look happy enough'. If you are prepaired to do so, get yourself a 40 gallon tank. Put the two goldies you have now in there and then add one more (of the same type prefferably). This would be fully stocked (the rule is 20 gallons for the first goldfish + 10 gallons for each added after that). Then do a water change weekly (with de-chlorinated water of course), rinse your filter media once a month in OLD TANK WATER, and watch that healthy, unstunted goldie you just added grow. They grow remarkably quickly if kept in the right environment, show the brightest colors and character and you'll notice also that they are social and enjoy the company of other goldfish. You could then put some small schooling fish (eg 4-5 white clouds) in the 9 gallon you currently have the goldies in (after the goldfish have been moved out... goldfish actualy shouldn't be mixed with 1" fish as they'll grow large enough to eat them). Obviously, if you can't afford a 40 gallon, at least get a 20 to mvoe your current fish into - don't add anything else - goldfish are extremely messy and produce a huge amount of waste. They'll soon grow to fill out the tank (assuming the stunting is overcome).

 

[koimom]

Okay, I think it's time for someone to repost the picture of the HUGE goldie that was posted a while back. We need to get the word out how big these babies grow under proper conditions.

 

[jollysue]

One of the girls at my lfs, who watches and keeps care of even the little snails and keeps goldies as well as tropicals, took me to the pond when I asked about keeping my shubunkin in a small tank. She pointed out two fish: "See how that one's body is stunted and shaped compared to that one there? The stunted one has been kept in a container too small for it. The other has been kept where it had room to swim and grow."

Yes I could see a difference. These were pond goldies. I don't know if they were commons or comets.

She also said that they continue to grow internally. That I don't know, and I don't know if those who say it is true that the organs get squeezed have anything but hearsay.

This I do believe, if they can't swim at their potential, they won't develop skeletally or muscularly. They just won't be abe to reach their physical potential. No child could be healthy growing up in a closet.

 

[bribones]

All fish give off pheromones, which limit their own growth in a closed environment,some believe it inhibits the growth of the tank mates as well

however

i have seen cases of orfs kept in tanks and as a result of stunting the internal organs continue to grow and push against the backbone of the fish causing it to kink and become deformed ,its not a myth while the body may stop growing the internal organs still have to perform there job of processing food and waste

and a few facts to follow

Goldfish produce more ammonia than other fish ammonia in the water will reduce the fishes natural immunity making them more susceptible to disease

Goldfish are a coldwater species, and thus need more oxygen than tropical fish,more fish means less oxygen

the one inch of fish per gallon guideline that applies to small tropicals DOES NOT APPLY TO GOLDFISH. In fact among many experienced goldfish owners the rule is that they need a MINIMUM 10 gallons per fish

imagine if you will your the fish ,as you grow older your nutritional requirements increase,you require more ,now what happens if your body stops growing but your stomach along with your intestinal tract continues to grow to meet your requirements

not worth thinking about

 

[jollysue]

A girl in the office of my employer asked me yesterday (when I went to pick up my pay) about her goldie her daughter had won 2 years ago at the fair. She said it was still 2 or 2.5" long, but still streamlined in a goldfish bowl. It had survived all her ingnorance, including sitting it in a window in the sun for some days or weeks. Some summer temps in Fresno, CA, reach 110 + F degrees. She said the water was hot to her touch.

She has grown to care for the little fellow and wants to better it's home. I suggested she find a person with a pond or take it to the community lfs. We both thought it might be small enough to go as a feeder fish. She is in a little denial about the consequences of it's raising. She is contemplating buying a 10 usg and asked if it would outgrow it too. I didn't tell her how fast.

Well she is headed to becoming a fish hobbist