Co2 Regulations

[gizmo001i]

Hi,
I have been trying to get my CO2 bottle topped up now for the last 3 weeks with not much luck. Therefore I am thinking of starting up a CO2 filling service for the local LFS. Does anyone know if there are any health and safety regulations which I would have to adhere to so as to be legal. Any advice will be very welcome.
Many thanks
Ian

 

[Ginge]

Can you explain in more detail what you are acually going to do please.

 

[gizmo001i]

I am able to get hold of a large ie 34Kg bottle of gas (which is far too big to put next to my tank lol). I can get this bottle refilled easily, but can't get my small 500g bottle refilled. The only problem, is that I have to rent the CO2 bottle from the gas company. So I was wondering about doing a CO2 refill service, where I collect the bottles from the LFS, top them up and then drop them off within 2 days. However, the large bottle will be stored in my garage and I want to find out if I need any certificates or such to be able to refill gas cylinders. I don't want to end up in trouble with the law. If I can do this, then hopefully it will pay for the rental of the bottle and allow me to top up my bottle whenever I want. It's just the handling of high pressure gas which is making me wonder if there are any regulations around that I may fall foul of.

 

[Themuleous]

No offence but this should dodgy to me, there would be a mountain of paper work and you'd need insurance against people getting injured. Also shops like maidenhead aquatics send theirs to companies who test them to make sure they are still in good working order and not about to break. As much as I would like more places to fill cylinders I don't think its really for the individual person as it'll probably be to expensive to set up.

Sam

 

[gizmo001i]

As far as I know, the bottles should have a test certificate attatched to say that it is safe and the bottles should be tested after that date. This would be up to the owner to test as I would only fill bottles in date. Also I would be the only person near the gas bottles. All the LFS and customer would do is handle the already filled bottle. But I can see your points. All you need to fill bottles are a doner bottle, filling station (ie pipe and gauge set) and scales.

 

[Themuleous]

Yeh guess so, but surely you'd still need some sort of insurance and there has to be a certificate/license to do this sort of thing as you're dealing with such high pressures, the government is transfixed on paper work like that But I could be wrong! Never looked into personally!

Sam

 

[gizmo001i]

That's why I'm trying to find out what regulations there are for this type of thing. I know I can get the CO2 bottle and rent it out and store it without any problems. It's just the supplying refilled bottles to other people bit, I'm not sure of. And of course if anything is legally required for decanting the bottles.

 

[Waterloo Kid]

Have you thought about the fact that you should technically register as a company and pay associated taxes etc. You would also most likely need planning permission to use your garage/outhouse etc. as a place of business and have insurance. Your customers may not get near the pressurised cylinders but your neighbours sure will. A bottle of that size can cause one hell of a big bang!

WK

 

[gizmo001i]

I realise about the bottle size and causing a big bang. But at the same time, fish keepers all round the world have large bottles like this sat in their fish sheds/front rooms etc. So my thoughts are that having the bottle is no problem. I don't mind registering as a small bussiness or such. I just want to know if the topping up side will cause me to come under the handling of gases regulations. I know that there are regulations for dangerous gases, but I'm not so sure about inert gases like CO2.

 

[hoarp001]

Dont forget the 'Non flamable gas' green sticker for the back of your car. Also, is this gas fish safe? Some industrial canisters have an atomized oil in the gas to lubricate the valves and regulators....

 

[gizmo001i]

I would ensure that the CO2 is suitable for fish use as I would be using it myself, plus I don't think I want to face a group of irate exfish owners lol. Thanks for the comment about the green sticker, I guess I would need it for even the small 500g and 2Kg bottles from the customers.

 

[hoarp001]

yes but seriously, most of the large gas canisters for welding and freezing have oil in the gas to lubricate the valves. check first....

 

[Themuleous]

I use a welding CO2 cylinder, no affect on the fish and no oily film on the surface of the tank.

Sam

 

[Graeme Edwards]

There are 3 grades of Co2

1 Is industrial grade, used for welding ect
2 Is food grade for drinks ect
3 Is hospital grade which is super purified for people.

If I had a choice i would at least go for food grade, saying that i dont know what grade my LFS Co2 is, what ever it is its fine.

Something to think about.

 

[MoreCoffee]

gizmo001i

An interesting thread and very commendable idea and I do wish you luck with it.

However apart from the paperwork, regulations (and I've heard the laws are quite strict) and quality of the gas, have you thought about the actual practicalities of filling (JBL type) 500g bottles.

I get my 2KG bottle filled through a guy who does fire extinguishers and they wouldn't touch them. He says due to the size of the bottle, they are much harder to fill than larger bottles. He said there were 'issues' with the temperature of the bottle !

I've also seen a number of posts (at various sites) of people getting welding or drinks gas suppliers to fiill the bottles, but lots of reports about the safety valve blowing if filled even slightly over the 500g.

Also seen another post that states that the bottle has to be chilled down in a freezer, otherwise it's hard to get a full 500g of CO2 into the bottle without it 'boiling off' (maybe thats what the fire extinguisher guy meant)

..... I'm not trying to dampen your ethusiasm, I hope you manage to sort it all out. Its really annoying how many places will sell you a system that you cant get refilled ! Thats why I started a thread about where to get them filled in the UK. Hopefully you'll be able to add your name to the list

I've got 2 500g JBL bottles and have get them filled at a local branch of Madenhead Aquatics !