Cloudy Water Issue!

[goldie88]

I have two tanks the 1st is a 60l tank that holds 2 goldfish & a hong kong/butterfly pleco, the 2nd tank is a 15l with 1 goldfish and both have a problem with the water becoming cloudy.
My 1st tank has been set up for around 6months and about a 1-2months ago i started having a real problem with the water becoming cloudy, i've increase the water change from 10% to 30%, I use Aqua Safe in the water as well as Interpet ammonia remover and Nutrafin watse control. My other tank has been set up for a month now, within a week of me putting the goldfish in the water became cloudy, I do a 30% water change and use the exact same products in the water. I also feed every other day to help prevent to much waste build up.
The water is still cloudy in both tanks and I have no idea what to do, can anyone help as this is becoming a major problem.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Both tanks are overstocked. For example, the normal recommendation for one goldfish is about an 80l tank. You'll find your substrate is very dirty and that is causing ammonia build up (lucky goldfish can deal with that eh!) and that in turn is causing your cloudy water. Get bigger tanks and clean more often and more thoroughly. I'm also assuming that you have filters in both of the tanks.

 

[BETTY BOO]

your tanks are way too small im afraid.goldfish are very messy fish and need very good filter.the best thing to do is get a bigger tank for them.

 

[goldie88]

Right, the people that sold me the goldfish and pleco didn't have any problem with the size of the tanks, obvisouly this was a mistake. Unfornately I can't upgrade the size as I'm limited by space.

I use filters that are designed for tanks twice the size of both of mine, I also clean the gravel throughly using a battery powered gravel cleaner this is done every 5 days. I'm not exgerating when I say I spend half an hour or longer cleaning the gravel.
I've tested the ammonia levels yesterday, 2hrs after adding the ammonia remover and they came back negative.
Water is still cloudy, is ammonia build up the only thing that can cause cloudy water or am I over looking something(aside from over stocking)?

If the solution is still cleaning out the tanks more frequently, then how often would you recommend?

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Right, the people that sold me the goldfish and pleco didn't have any problem with the size of the tanks...

Of course they didn't, they're a retail outlet whose livelihood depends on selling you as much as they can, often without any care for the plight of the fish.

I've tested the ammonia levels yesterday, 2hrs after adding the ammonia remover and they came back negative.

That suggests you're not using a liquid test kit to measure the ammonia (and other toxins) with. You need a liquid test kit so that you can be sure the ammonia is at 0ppm. If, in fact, you do have a liquid ammonia test what is the actual reading?

In general if you have a bacterial bloom you're either over stocked, under maintained or under filtered.

 

[goldie88]

Right, the people that sold me the goldfish and pleco didn't have any problem with the size of the tanks...

Of course they didn't, they're a retail outlet whose livelihood depends on selling you as much as they can, often without any care for the plight of the fish.

I've tested the ammonia levels yesterday, 2hrs after adding the ammonia remover and they came back negative.

That suggests you're not using a liquid test kit to measure the ammonia (and other toxins) with. You need a liquid test kit so that you can be sure the ammonia is at 0ppm. If, in fact, you do have a liquid ammonia test what is the actual reading?

In general if you have a bacterial bloom you're either over stocked, under maintained or under filtered.

The liquid test came back as 0ppm, I confirmed with the rest of my family that the water i had tested was indeed yellow which according to the ammonia colour card that came with the test kit means the ammonia levels are non-esixtance.

The fliters used, as I said before, are design for larger tanks. The 60l tank has a filter designed for a 150-200l tank and the 15l tank has a filter design for 50l tank in it, both have carbon fliters and the more powerful filter has something called Biomax in it which is supose to help with the biological balance of the tank.
They both run on maxium output 24/7. I clean every 5 days,use a battery powered gravel cleaner and don't stop cleaning the gravel until I'm only getting a very small amount of dirt at the very bottom of the filter bag. I also carry out a 30% water change (originally I was carrying out a 10% water change which was recommended to me), I also took to adding a waste control substance designed to help break down fish waste. I do have air pumps that run 24/7 alongside the filters

The book I have regrading tank maintance only says 2 things in regrads to cloudy tank water the 1st being that the gravel wasn't washed properly to begin with. I've have washed the gravel again since first noticing the cloudy water, the water ran clear so I put the gravel back in. The 2nd was high ammonia levels, I use ammonia remover and tested the ammonia levels with a liquid test as was recommended in the book.

I now know the tanks are over stocked, unfornately I haven't the space for a larger tank, and if I had known when buying the fish that the tanks were inadequte I would never have brought them.

If this is all solely down to over stocking then I'll have to live with it, but if its potentially down to something else please give me advice on what to do. Should I up how often I change the water and clean the gravel? Or is there another toxin build up that I'm over looking?
I will be getting some more liquid test kits in the coming week, as the test strips I have are useless.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

What is the exact brand of the ammonia test you are using?

Any time you have a bacterial bloom there will almost certainly be (measurable) ammonia in the tank. So either your test is wrong for some reason or, in fact, it isn't a bacterial bloom. I can't imagine the gravel being the cause, especially as you've scrubbed it again, but I now realise I never asked you what colour the cloudiness is.

Also, if you run your fingers through the gravel right to the bottom of the tank does it kick up much muck?

What is the waste control product you're using? Did the cloudiness start not long after using it?

When you say you use ammonia remover, what is the product?

If you can answer those few questions we might be able to pin it down.

 

[balajake]

doesnt she just need some filter wool ?

 

[Prime Ordeal]

doesnt she just need some filter wool ?

We don't know what the cause of the cloudiness is yet and if it does turn out to be something that can be removed with filter floss it would still be wise to address the cause of the cloudiness rather than stick a bandage on it.

 

[balajake]

doesnt she just need some filter wool ?

We don't know what the cause of the cloudiness is yet and if it does turn out to be something that can be removed with filter floss it would still be wise to address the cause of the cloudiness rather than stick a bandage on it.

maybe she could post a photo of the tank.

 

[goldie88]

What is the exact brand of the ammonia test you are using?

Any time you have a bacterial bloom there will almost certainly be (measurable) ammonia in the tank. So either your test is wrong for some reason or, in fact, it isn't a bacterial bloom. I can't imagine the gravel being the cause, especially as you've scrubbed it again, but I now realise I never asked you what colour the cloudiness is.

Also, if you run your fingers through the gravel right to the bottom of the tank does it kick up much muck?

What is the waste control product you're using? Did the cloudiness start not long after using it?

When you say you use ammonia remover, what is the product?

If you can answer those few questions we might be able to pin it down.

I should mention I live in the UK so the products I am using may only be avaible in the UK.

To test the water I use API liqiud tests, they are the only brand of liquid tests sold at pet shops and aquariums store I spent a few minutes checking before buying the products.

The ammonia remover product used is called Interpet, it does seem to work as before I carried out my last water change the ammonia level was 0.25ppm and after the change and adding of this product it came back as 0ppm.

The waste control brand is Nutrafin, I only brought it because I thought the cloudiness was caused by a build up of waste and this product was reccommend. It does have the side effect of increasing the ammonia levels but as I mention before the ammonia remover I use seems to work as the results come back as 0ppm.

The couldiness occurred before I started using the waste control product, since using the product and spending longer cleaning the gravel I'm not kicking up as much muck I would say properly just a few debris and coming up when I desiturb it.

The water is sort of a milky white colour, when you look really closely with the light on I've notices there seems to be these really tiny particles floating around in the water. I've also noticed that when I carry out large water changes the water clears a bit for the 1st day or 2 and then it becomes really cloudy again.

I don't know if this helps but I got the rest of the liquids tests needed to test pH, nitrites and nitrates levels. For the 60l tank only the pH level was slightly elevated, it came back as a pH of 7.6. The rest of the tests came back at the recommended 0ppm. The 15l tanks nitrite levels came back as 0.25ppm.
I'm carrying out a water change on both tanks so hopefully they will go back down and I intend to buy a bottle pH Down and Stress Zyme to help if there is still an issue with these two levels.

I hope this helps and I'm really sorry if I sound like a complete pain.

doesnt she just need some filter wool ?

Soz, I'm a very novice aquarium owner so this may sound really stupid but, what does filter wool do exactly?

 

[BETTY BOO]

Soz, I'm a very novice aquarium owner so this may sound really stupid but, what does filter wool do exactly?
[/quote]

filter wool is a type of filter medium. You can use it as the top layer in your filter to catch any finer particles that the other media in your filter (such as the foams and sponges) has not caught.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

I should mention I live in the UK so the products I am using may only be avaible in the UK.

Me too, so I know of what you speak.

To test the water I use API liqiud tests, they are the only brand of liquid tests sold at pet shops and aquariums store I spent a few minutes checking before buying the products.

Good.

The ammonia remover product used is called Interpet, it does seem to work as before I carried out my last water change the ammonia level was 0.25ppm and after the change and adding of this product it came back as 0ppm.

The only way I know of 'instantly' removing ammonia using a product like this is if it binds with the ammonia to make it safe for the fish. However 24-48 hours later the ammonia will be released again if the filter isn't able to process it before then. The point here is that you changed the water and so (unless your water has ammonia in it) you'd fully expect the ammonia reading to be zero.

The waste control brand is Nutrafin, I only brought it because I thought the cloudiness was caused by a build up of waste and this product was reccommend. It does have the side effect of increasing the ammonia levels but as I mention before the ammonia remover I use seems to work as the results come back as 0ppm.

At least you're aware of the fact that this type of product increases ammonia, many aren't. However, if your tank is full of organic matter and your problem is high ammonia you don't want to add to the problem by using this stuff. Despite what you're saying about the efforts you're going to to keep the tanks clean I still suspect that it's collected muck etc in the gravel and/or filter that's causing this problem (that in turn being due to being overstocked).

The couldiness occurred before I started using the waste control product, since using the product and spending longer cleaning the gravel I'm not kicking up as much muck I would say properly just a few debris and coming up when I desiturb it.

The water is sort of a milky white colour, when you look really closely with the light on I've notices there seems to be these really tiny particles floating around in the water. I've also noticed that when I carry out large water changes the water clears a bit for the 1st day or 2 and then it becomes really cloudy again.

That's almost certainly a bacterial boom then. As I've already said there's only a few causes for that: under filtered, under maintained, overstocked or your filter isn't cycled.

I don't know if this helps but I got the rest of the liquids tests needed to test pH, nitrites and nitrates levels. For the 60l tank only the pH level was slightly elevated, it came back as a pH of 7.6. The rest of the tests came back at the recommended 0ppm. The 15l tanks nitrite levels came back as 0.25ppm.

The ammonia is elevated as expected, the pH isn't relevant for your problem.

I'm carrying out a water change on both tanks so hopefully they will go back down and I intend to buy a bottle pH Down and Stress Zyme to help if there is still an issue with these two levels.

No,no,no! Please don't buy any more chemical products, it's money down the drain and would be better spent getting a bigger tank off eBay. You're trying to fix a bleeding wound by bandaging it rather than doing what you should be doing which is stitching the wound.

I hope this helps and I'm really sorry if I sound like a complete pain.

This is what the forum's for.

In summary either the tank and/or filter is just too mucky and is causing the elevated ammonia or your filter is uncycled. All you can do is clean the tank as much as possible and continue with water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrite under 0.25ppm until the filter cycles. You're effectively doing a fish-in cycle.

 

[afremont]

I have two tanks the 1st is a 60l tank that holds 2 goldfish & a hong kong/butterfly pleco, the 2nd tank is a 15l with 1 goldfish and both have a problem with the water becoming cloudy.
My 1st tank has been set up for around 6months and about a 1-2months ago i started having a real problem with the water becoming cloudy, i've increase the water change from 10% to 30%, I use Aqua Safe in the water as well as Interpet ammonia remover and Nutrafin watse control. My other tank has been set up for a month now, within a week of me putting the goldfish in the water became cloudy, I do a 30% water change and use the exact same products in the water. I also feed every other day to help prevent to much waste build up.
The water is still cloudy in both tanks and I have no idea what to do, can anyone help as this is becoming a major problem.

I saw what your ammonia readings are, can you provide your nitrIte readings? Lots of water changes are in your future.

 

[goldie88]

I have two tanks the 1st is a 60l tank that holds 2 goldfish & a hong kong/butterfly pleco, the 2nd tank is a 15l with 1 goldfish and both have a problem with the water becoming cloudy.
My 1st tank has been set up for around 6months and about a 1-2months ago i started having a real problem with the water becoming cloudy, i've increase the water change from 10% to 30%, I use Aqua Safe in the water as well as Interpet ammonia remover and Nutrafin watse control. My other tank has been set up for a month now, within a week of me putting the goldfish in the water became cloudy, I do a 30% water change and use the exact same products in the water. I also feed every other day to help prevent to much waste build up.
The water is still cloudy in both tanks and I have no idea what to do, can anyone help as this is becoming a major problem.

I saw what your ammonia readings are, can you provide your nitrIte readings? Lots of water changes are in your future.

the 60l tank came back s 0ppm, the 15l as 0.25, have carried out a water change and will be testing the water again.